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Bulls Notes: DeRozan, Vucevic, DeRozan, Green

March 6th, 2023 at 8:53pm CST by Dana Gauruder

Following a crushing three-point home loss to Indiana, DeMar DeRozan admits he’s exasperated with the Bulls’ inability to gain any traction in the Eastern Conference standings, Joe Cowley of The Chicago Sun-Times writes.

“It’s beyond frustrating that we lost again,’’ DeRozan said. “It’s overly frustrating to lose, especially when we say it’s a must-win. We’re making our own bed. We can’t complain about it. We’ve got to figure out these last games to dig us out of this hole and put ourselves in a position to make something out of it.’’

We have more on the Bulls:

Going along with that theme, impending free agent Nikola Vucevic admits it’s tough to imagine things turning around the rest of the season, according to Darnell Mayberry of The Athletic. “It doesn’t really depend on us anymore,” Vucevic said. “I mean, it does. We have to win. But we’re depending on the people in front of us, on how they do. So it’s hard to say after 65 games we didn’t figure it out. It’s tough to believe that something’s just going to (click) like that. We’ll see. We’re going to keep fighting, keep hoping something happens. But it’s obvious we’ve put ourselves in a very difficult spot now.”
Adding to the frustration is that Zach LaVine has been on his best offensive tear of the season, Cowley notes in a separate story. Over the last 10 games, he’s averaging just under 29 points per game while shooting 51.6% from the field and 42.9% on 3-point attempts. Chicago is 3-7 during that stretch.
Javonte Green “continues to progress” in his rehab but there’s no timetable for his return, according to a team press release. His status will be updated in approximately two weeks. Green underwent arthroscopic surgery to his right knee on Jan. 11 and coach Billy Donovan acknowledged over the weekend that Green is still struggling to make lateral movements.

Javonte Green's Progress Has Been Slow

March 5th, 2023 at 5:29pm CST by Dana Gauruder

Javonte Green was supposed to return to action by now after undergoing an arthroscopic debridement on his right knee in January. However, his recovery has gone more slowly than expected, Bulls coach Billy Donovan told K.C. Johnson of NBC Sports Chicago and other media members. “Different stuff that they try to push him towards, they have to go off of his tolerance,” Donovan said. “We’ve been kind of at the same thing where I think the linear, straight-ahead running has been pretty good. But they’ve not been able to progress him yet to any lateral stuff.” A free agent after the season, Green has only appeared in 28 games.

Bulls Notes: Vucevic, Beverley, White, Ball, Williams

March 3rd, 2023 at 10:04pm CST by Luke Adams

Bulls center Nikola Vucevic and guard Patrick Beverley exchanged words over a blown defensive assignment during Wednesday’s win over Detroit, prompting DeMar DeRozan to step in and smooth things out.

Following the argument, a source told Joe Cowley of The Chicago Sun-Times that Vucevic “hasn’t been thrilled with some of the recent finger-pointing” among Bulls players (not just Beverley). However, when he spoke about the exchange on Friday, Vucevic said it was “way blown out of proportion,” telling reporters that it was “honestly no big deal at all,” as K.C. Johnson of NBC Sports Chicago relays.

“It was just arguing in the moment,” Vucevic said. “It wasn’t that big a deal. We talked about it. It happens every game. People always make a big deal out of when players argue on the court. That’s part of the game. We’re competitors. We’re trying to make the right play. Sometimes you don’t agree on the same thing in the moment. Talk it out and it’s over with. We never talked about it after.”

Asked whether he feels singled out for defensive lapses, Vucevic expressed some self awareness about his shortcomings on that end of the court, acknowledging that defense is “not the strongest” part of his game. However, he added that he believes he does some things well defensively.

“I always try to do my best at that end,” the big man said. “It’s something I’ve very aware of. I know what my limitations are on the floor and I try to stick to my strengths.”

Here’s more on the Bulls, who lost additional ground in the play-in race on Friday when they fell at home to Kevin Durant and the Suns:

In a column for NBC Sports Chicago, Johnson makes the case for why the Bulls should sign Coby White to a new contract when he reaches restricted free agency this summer. White has shown growth this season as a defender and ball-handler, according to Johnson, who adds that the fourth-year guard has never questioned or complained about his inconsistent role. Johnson wonders if a three- or four-year deal in the range of $12-14MM per year would make sense for both sides.
Bulls head coach Billy Donovan said this week that he has been given no indication that Lonzo Ball‘s knee issues are career-threatening, but understands why that question has come up. “The point is well taken. It has been over a year, and he’s still not running,” Donovan said, per Cowley. “… I just feel really bad for him, and the problem is we’ve had a hard time getting it resolved. And there have been a lot of medical people involved. Doctors trying to figure out what is going on, what is causing the pain? Basically getting him to a place where he can run and do certain things athletically.”
Darnell Mayberry of The Athletic takes a closer look at the off-court development occurring this season for former lottery pick Patrick Williams, who is becoming more confident and “finding his voice” in the Bulls’ locker room. “I just think it comes with me growing as a person and as a player,” Williams said. “Being more comfortable in who I am and being more comfortable in what I can be, that’s a huge part of it. Just feeling like I know what I can be and realizing my potential.”
In case you missed it, the Bulls filled the open spot on their 15-man roster on Friday by promoting Carlik Jones from his two-way contract.

Bulls Convert Carlik Jones To Standard Contract

March 3rd, 2023 at 8:56pm CST by Rory Maher

8:56pm: The Bulls have officially signed Jones to his standard contract, the team announced in a press release.

7:12pm: The Bulls plan to convert Carlik Jones‘ two-way deal into a standard contract that covers the rest of 2022/23, according to Shams Charania of The Athletic (Twitter link).

As K.C. Johnson of NBC Sports Chicago notes (via Twitter), Jones will fill the opening that was created when the team waived veteran guard Goran Dragic. The Bulls will have an open two-way slot once Jones is officially promoted to the standard roster.

Jones, 25, was a rookie last season after going undrafted out of Louisville. He appeared in five NBA games in 2021/22 on 10-day hardship deals with the Mavericks and Nuggets, but spent most of his rookie year playing with the Texas Legends, the Mavs’ G League affiliate.

Jones played for the Bulls’ Summer League team in 2022 and was later signed to an Exhibit 10 deal, but was waived before the season started. He signed a two-way deal with Chicago in December, appearing in two games for a total of 23 minutes.

The second-year guard has spent the majority of ’22/23 with Chicago’s G League affiliate, the Windy City Bulls, averaging an impressive 26.1 PPG, 4.4 RPG, 7.4 APG and 1.4 SPG on .489/.356/.800 shooting through 16 regular season games (39.3 MPG). He was on our list of five G League players making bids for NBA call-ups due to their strong performances, and now that has come to fruition.

Jones competed in the G League’s Next Up Game last month, which was essentially its version of the All-Star Game.

Free Agent Stock Watch: Central Division

March 1st, 2023 at 3:53pm CST by Rory Maher

For the rest of the regular season and postseason, Hoops Rumors is taking a closer look at players who will be free agents or could become free agents during the 2023 offseason. We consider whether their stock is rising or falling due to their performance and other factors. Today, we’re focusing on a handful of Central players.

Brook Lopez, C, Bucks

2022/23: $13,906,976
2023/24: UFA
Stock: Up

Lopez has been one of the NBA’s best stories this season, rebounding from a mostly lost season in 2021/22 after undergoing back surgery (he played just 13 regular season games and 12 playoff games). He’s having an outstanding year and has been a major factor in Milwaukee’s league-leading 44-17 record, averaging 14.7 PPG, 6.7 RPG and 2.4 BPG on .508/.370/.766 shooting through 60 games (30.3 MPG).

The veteran center, who is one of the leading candidates for Defensive Player of the Year, has said he hopes to remain with the Bucks, and the interest is reportedly mutual. Lopez has definitely earned a raise, but given his age (he turns 35 next month), I’d be a little surprised if he gets more than a two-year deal.

Khris Middleton, F, Bucks

2022/23: $37,948,276
2023/24: $40,396,552 (player option)
Stock: Down

Middleton’s stock is down primarily due to injuries, which have limited him to 20 games to this point. The Bucks have been very cautious with the three-time All-Star, as he’s been coming off the bench lately and averaging his fewest minutes per game (21.5) since he was a rookie. However, despite the small sample size, it’s worth noting that the Bucks have been terrific with Middleton on the court – he has a plus-9.7 net rating, per NBA.com.

A career 38.9% three-point shooter, Middleton is making just 29.9% from deep this season, which has hurt his offensive efficiency (the rest of his shooting numbers are very close to career norms). That seems more like an aberration than a long-term concern.

The remaining 21 regular season games and how he fares in the postseason will likely determine whether or not the 31-year-old decides to pick up his player option for ’23/24. Let’s not forget that Middleton averaged 23.6 PPG, 7.6 RPG, 5.1 APG and 1.5 SPG during Milwaukee’s championship run a couple years ago — I would not be surprised at all if he bounces back from a disappointing season over the next few months.

Ayo Dosunmu, G, Bulls

2022/23: $1,563,518
2023/24: RFA
Stock: Neutral

The 38^th pick of the 2021 draft, Dosunmu had a strong rookie campaign, earning a spot on the All-Rookie Second Team after averaging 8.8 PPG, 2.8 RPG and 3.3 APG on .520/.376/.679 shooting in 77 games (40 starts, 27.4 MPG).

His numbers have been quite similar in year two, with the 23-year-old averaging 9.3 PPG, 3.2 RPG and 2.8 APG on .498/.316/.806 shooting in 60 games (49 starts, 28.1 MPG). Obviously the three-point percentage is down, which is unfortunate, and he hasn’t necessarily progressed from a statistical standpoint like some second-year players do.

Advanced stats aren’t very high on Dosunmu, and the Bulls have been better by a pretty significant margin when he’s not on the court. While Dosunmu may not have made a second-year leap, I still like his defensive potential and he reportedly has a strong work ethic and team-first attitude.

Dosunmu met the starter criteria, so the value of his qualifying offer increased to $5,216,324. It will be interesting to see how his restricted free agency plays out.

Hamidou Diallo, G/F, Pistons

2022/23: $5,200,000
2023/24: UFA
Stock: Up

Diallo is challenging to evaluate because his strengths and weakness are more pronounced than most players. He is a non-shooting wing with pretty bad tunnel vision, which you would expect would make him ineffective in a league constantly looking for floor-spacers.

That isn’t the case. The 24-year-old is one of the most athletic players in the NBA and he plays with a tremendous amount of energy. He utilizes those strengths to play strong defense, crash the boards, drive, and catch lobs, and he’s been very effective at all of those things in ‘22/23.

The Pistons have an overall defensive rating of 117.6, which ranks 28^th in the league. When Diallo is on the court, Detroit has the equivalent of the league’s fourth-best defense. He is shooting a career-high 58.1% from the field in large part because he is converting 71.8% of his attempts at the rim, per DunksAndThrees.com – a better mark than many centers.

Sometimes Diallo’s energy carries over into recklessness. He fouls too much and can be turnover-prone. Even if his game is polarizing, I think he deserves a raise, perhaps a deal in the range of $6-10MM per year.

Oshae Brissett, F, Pacers

2022/23: $1,846,738
2023/24: UFA
Stock: Down

After averaging 9.6 PPG and 5.4 RPG on .428/.368/.716 shooting in 88 games (41 starts, 23.7 MPG) with Indiana from 2020-22, Brissett had an opportunity to establish himself as a reliable rotation player in a contract year. Unfortunately, that has not come to fruition.

The Pacers have been relatively weak at power forward all season. Brissett hasn’t helped much. He’s averaging 5.5 PPG and 3.4 RPG on .388/.333/.693 shooting in 49 games in ‘22/23, with his playing time cut back to 16.0 MPG. He has been a healthy scratch in seven of the last eight games.

Still just 24 years old, Brissett should land another (relatively small) deal in free agency — he’s a solid rebounder and defender. But those shooting numbers are a problem, and his stock is definitely down compared to the past couple seasons.

Donovan: Tanking Not In Cards

February 28th, 2023 at 5:33pm CST by Dana Gauruder

The Bulls entered a road back-to-back on a two-game winning streak. They’re still very much in the play-in tournament hunt and coach Billy Donovan said there’s been no discussion about going into tank mode to improve their draft status, according to Joe Cowley of the Chicago Sun-Times.

“I’ve never had a situation from ownership, front office, that said, ‘Listen, we’ve got an opportunity to potentially manipulate or get a higher draft pick. Let’s sit these guys. Let’s play the younger guys and give them an opportunity.’ That’s never taken place,” the Bulls head coach said. “So. I respect that and appreciate that, because I do think that when you line up and play there’s an integrity, and even to the fans, you’re out there trying to win.’’

Bulls Waive Goran Dragic

February 28th, 2023 at 2:56pm CST by Luke Adams

The Bulls have officially waived veteran guard Goran Dragic, the team announced today in a press release.

The move was a mutual decision made by the Bulls and Dragic, and had been in the works since the team added Patrick Beverley, sources tell K.C. Johnson of NBC Sports Chicago (Twitter link).

There was some speculation at the time of Beverley’s signing last week that Dragic would be the player released to make room on the 15-man roster for the newcomer, but Chicago cut center Tony Bradley instead. Now, the Bulls have an open roster spot and are in position to sign another player before the end of the regular season.

Dragic, 36, inked a one-year, minimum-salary contract with the Bulls last summer and had been part of the club’s point guard rotation for most of the season, averaging 6.4 points, 2.7 assists, and 1.4 rebounds per night on .425/.352/.659 shooting in 51 games (15.4 MPG). However, he looked like the odd man out following Beverley’s arrival.

Because he was waived before March 1, Dragic will be playoff-eligible if he signs with another NBA team between now and the last day of the regular season. It’s also possible he could be claimed on waivers, since any team could absorb his contract using the minimum salary exception. A club placing a claim would have to be willing to take on Dragic’s full $1.84MM cap hit and would owe him the money left on that contract.

Assuming Dragic clears waivers, his $1.84MM cap charge will stay on the Bulls’ books and Chicago’s team salary would remain about $1.2MM below the luxury tax line, tweets ESPN’s Bobby Marks. That gives the club more than enough room to sign a player to a rest-of-season minimum-salary deal to fill Dragic’s roster spot.

Community Shootaround: NBA’s Race To The Bottom

February 26th, 2023 at 11:57am CST by Luke Adams

Coming into the 2022/23 season, there was some concern that the presence of Scoot Henderson and (especially) Victor Wembanyama at the top of the 2023 draft class could result in some pretty aggressive tanking from the bottom third of the NBA’s teams.

It hasn’t played out that way so far though, due to a competitive race for the top 10 spots in each conference. In the West, the top 13 teams all either hold a playoff or play-in spot or are no more than 1.5 games back of the No. 10 seed. It’s not quite as congested in the East, but the conference’s 13th team is only four games out of a play-in spot.

As a result, there have been only four teams in full-on “race for Wembanyama” mode, and one of those four clubs hasn’t exactly been in tanking mode as of late, winning its last four games. Here’s what the bottom of the NBA’s standings look like as of Sunday morning:

Houston Rockets (13-46)
San Antonio Spurs (14-47)
Detroit Pistons (15-46)
Charlotte Hornets (19-43)
Orlando Magic (25-36)
Indiana Pacers (27-35)
Chicago Bulls (27-33)
Los Angeles Lakers (28-32)
(tie) Portland Trail Blazers / Oklahoma City Thunder / Washington Wizards (28-31)

Given that the odds for the No. 1 pick are the same for each of the NBA’s three worst teams, it seemed as if we’d get a four-team race for those three spots at the bottom of the standings. But the Hornets have won their last four games and appear far better positioned to continue getting victories than the Rockets (losers of eight in a row and 23 of their last 26), the Spurs (losers of 15 in a row and 21 of 22), and the Pistons (losers of four in a row and seven of their last eight).

Of course, if the Hornets were to play .500 ball the rest of the way, they’d still end up with just 29 wins, so they may end up with the NBA’s fourth-worst record even if they finish strong. After all, the Bulls, Lakers, Trail Blazers, and Wizards all seem motivated to make the play-in.

The Magic, Pacers, and Thunder are perhaps candidates for stealth end-of-season tanks in order to secure top-five lottery odds, since none of those clubs expected to be a playoff team this season. But they’ve been competitive all season and would probably have to start ruling out some of their top players due to injuries if they want to start winning less often (similar to what Portland did last year).

As for the race to the bottom among the NBA’s three worst teams, it’s hard to bet against the Rockets, who also finished with the league’s worst record in 2021 and 2022. But the Spurs are giving them a run for their money with their recent stretch of futility, posting an abysmal -15.8 net rating during their 15-game current losing streak. And the Pistons seem happy to experiment with new lineups while incorporating recently added players.

We want to know what you think. How will the race for lottery positioning play out the rest of the way? Which team will finish as the NBA’s worst? Has the Hornets’ recent success locked them into the fourth spot in the lottery standings? Are there any teams with 25 or more wins that you expect to go into full-on tank mode in the coming days or weeks?

Head to the comment section below to weigh in!

Checking In On RFAs-To-Be Who Have Met Starter Criteria

February 26th, 2023 at 10:49am CST by Luke Adams

As we explain in a glossary entry, a player who is eligible for restricted free agency at the end of a given season can have the value of his qualifying offer adjusted depending on whether or not he meets the “starter criteria.”

A player is considered to have met the starter criteria if he plays at least 2,000 minutes or starts 41 games in the season before he reaches free agency. A player can also meet the criteria if he averages either of those marks in the two seasons prior to his restricted free agency.

If a top-14 pick doesn’t meet the starter criteria, he has the value of his qualifying offer adjusted downward and receives a QO equal to the amount the 15th overall pick would get if he signed for 120% of the rookie scale.

A player drafted at No. 10 or later can increase the value of his qualifying offer by meeting the starter criteria.

Players drafted between 10th and 30th who meet the starter criteria receive a QO equal to the amount the ninth overall pick would receive if he signed for 120% of the rookie scale, while second-round picks or undrafted free agents who meet the criteria receive a QO equal to the amount the 21st overall pick would receive if he signed for 100% of the rookie scale.

In simplified terms, here’s how those rules will apply in 2022/23:

A top-14 pick who falls short of the starter criteria will have a qualifying offer worth $7,744,600.
A player picked between No. 10 and No. 30 who meets the starter criteria will have a qualifying offer worth $8,486,620.
A second-round pick or undrafted free agent who meets the starter criteria will have a qualifying offer worth $5,216,324.

A qualifying offer is essentially a one-year contract offer that functions as a placeholder if the player doesn’t accept it. If a player is considered a good bet to sign a lucrative long-term contract, a slight adjustment to his qualifying offer generally has no material impact on his free agency.

However, a change in a qualifying offer can sometimes be a difference maker. The best recent example of this came in 2020, when then-Bulls guard Kris Dunn met the starter criteria, ensuring that his qualifying offer would be worth $7,091,457 instead of $4,642,800.

The Bulls opted not to extend that $7MM+ QO, making him an unrestricted free agent, and he ended up signing a two-year, $10MM contract with Atlanta. If Dunn hadn’t met the starter criteria, it’s possible Chicago would’ve been more comfortable issuing a $4.6MM qualifying offer, which would’ve significantly changed the way Dunn’s free agency played out.

So far in 2022/23, three players have met the starter criteria:

P.J. Washington, Hornets (60 starts)
Tre Jones, Spurs (52 starts)
Ayo Dosunmu, Bulls (49 starts)

Washington was the 12th overall pick in 2019 and will therefore have his qualifying offer bumped up to $8,486,620.

As second-round picks in 2020 and 2021, respectively, Jones and Dosunmu will now have QOs worth $5,216,324.

Here are some more players eligible for restricted free agency this summer whose qualifying offers can – or will – be impacted by the starter criteria:

Coby White, Bulls (top-14 pick)
Jaxson Hayes, Pelicans (top-14 pick)
Rui Hachimura, Lakers (top-14 pick)
Cameron Johnson, Nets (top-14 pick)
Romeo Langford, Spurs (top-14 pick)
Matisse Thybulle, Trail Blazers (No. 20 pick)
Grant Williams, Celtics (No. 22 pick)
Herbert Jones, Pelicans (second-round pick) *
Kenyon Martin Jr., Rockets (second-round pick) *
Naji Marshall, Pelicans (UDFA) *

(* Player has a team option for 2023/24)

White, Hayes, Hachimura, and Langford have no realistic path to meeting the starter criteria this season, so if their teams want to make them restricted free agents this summer, the qualifying offer cost will be $7,744,600. Johnson could join them in that group, though he has started 20 games so far this season and Brooklyn still has 23 contests left, so he still has a shot to make 41 starts as long as he stays healthy and the Nets don’t move him to the bench.

Thybulle and Williams are the only two non-lottery first-round picks who will be RFA-eligible later this year and still have a chance to meet the starter criteria, bumping their QOs to $8,486,620.

It’s probably a long shot for Thybulle, who has made 59 starts since the beginning of 2021/22 — the Trail Blazers only have 23 games remaining, so Thybulle would have to start every single one of them to get to 82 total starts (an average of 41) over the last two seasons.

Williams has a clearer path to get there. He has logged 1,651 minutes so far this season, averaging 27.5 per game. The Celtics play 21 more times this season and Williams would have to play 349 more minutes (16.6 per night) to reach the 2,000-minute threshold. That seems likely as long as he stays off the injured list.

Jones, Martin, and Marshall belong in a different group. All three players have team options on their contracts for 2023/24, so their clubs could simply exercise those options and not have to worry about restricted free agency this year. That’s absolutely what will happen in Jones’ case, since he’ll still be RFA-eligible in 2024.

Martin and Marshall, however, would be on track for unrestricted free agency in 2024 if their team options for next season are picked up — the Rockets and Pelicans could decide to decline this options this summer and negotiate with their players as restricted free agents instead, giving them more control over the process. Houston took this route last summer with Jae’Sean Tate.

With that in mind, it’s worth keeping an eye on whether Martin and/or Marshall will reach the starter criteria and bump their potential QOs to $5,216,324 (from approximately $2.3MM). Martin, who has been in the Rockets’ starting five since mid-January, would need to start 15 of the team’s last 23 games to get there. It’s a more difficult path for Marshall, who would need to average 29.6 minutes per game in the Pelicans’ final 21 contests to get to 2,000 minutes on the season.

Bulls Notes: Beverley, Dosunmu, Leadership, Caruso

February 25th, 2023 at 11:21pm CST by Alex Kirschenbaum

New Bulls starting point guard Patrick Beverley has come close to suiting up for his hometown team even before this season, writes K.C. Johnson of NBC Sports Chicago. When Beverley was looking to make his NBA debut in 2012 following international pro stints in Greece and Russia, he participated in a mini-camp for Chicago’s summer league team at the time.

In a recent presser, the 34-year-old vet discussed his excitement at the chance to play for the Bulls.

“Obviously, an honor,” Beverley said. “The way I play, I run through a wall for any team. This is even more… It’s the city where I’m from, so I don’t know what might happen. I might pull some [expletive] out I ain’t never did before. I’m super stoked and can’t wait to get started. This is good energy, fresh energy.”

In his first game for the Bulls last night, Beverley helped the team snap a six-game losing streak with his signature tough defense, solid court awareness and dogged leadership.

There’s more out of the Windy City:

Second-year Bulls guard Ayo Dosunmu was shifted to a bench role upon Beverley’s arrival. After a Friday shootaround, he explained that he was excited to learn from his fellow native Chicagoan, rather than being worried about losing minutes to him, per K.C. Johnson of NBC Sports Chicago. “He’s a [three]-time All-Defensive team [honoree],” Dosunmu said. “That’s one category where I want to get to… So him being here and being able to give me advice of how to manipulate things on the defensive end and make guys uncomfortable, he’s doing that at 6 feet, 6’1″. If I can continue to learn and get better, then I don’t see why I wouldn’t be able to be the same way.”
Chicago head coach Billy Donovan had high praise for Beverley’s leadership and defensive effort following the Bulls’ 131-87 shellacking of the Nets on Friday, per Joe Cowley of The Chicago Sun-Times. “He’s very inspiring and uplifting, and very positive, but the one thing I respect about him is he comes into everything with great energy,” Donovan said. “And then his voice has been really positive in terms of trying to uplift guys, give guys confidence and belief, that type of stuff. There’s no question you can feel his presence.” In a separate piece, Cowley wonders if Beverley has already become the team’s de facto leader after just one game.
Beverley instantly shores up the perimeter defense of a team that desperately needs it. The Bulls’ best defender, Alex Caruso, believes playing alongside another solid wing defender will help boost the team similar to the way it did last year, when he and injured point guard Lonzo Ball were locking down opposing offenses, writes K.C. Johnson of NBC Sports Chicago. “He has a really high defensive IQ,” Caruso raved. “I think having me and him out there together being able to orchestrate where guys need to go, calling out plays, impact the ball can help. Lonzo and I had great synergy last year as far as being to play off each other and wreaking havoc for the other guys.”