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Nuggets’ Michael Malone To Make Changes To Bench Rotation

November 25th, 2023 at 12:16pm CST by Tristan Tucker

The Nuggets concluded a 1-4 road trip by losing to the Rockets by 19 points on Friday, prompting coach Michael Malone to promise that changes to the rotation were on the way, as relayed by The Denver Post’s Bennett Durando.

“I just told them,” Malone said. “Minutes, I’m gonna start playing different people. You just can’t go out there because you think you’re gonna play, and go out there and do nothing. You’ve gotta bring something to the party.”

Denver’s bench was outscored 16-0 in the first half on Friday with Christian Braun, Peyton Watson, Zeke Nnaji and Julian Strawther the headliners of the second unit. Braun had a good road trip, according to Durando, but Watson was a minus-24 and Strawther was a minus-36 during that stretch, while Nnaji was a minus-10 before Friday, a game in which he got pulled after one minute.

The Nuggets have put an emphasis on a two-timeline plan this offseason, as evidenced by using three draft picks this year and entrusting young players like Braun, Nnaji and Watson with heavy minutes. That plan is being put to the test with star guard Jamal Murray having been out since Nov. 4. Malone said he hopes Murray comes back “really, really soon,” according to Vinny Benedetto of The Denver Gazette (Twitter link).

One such change is seemingly going to be a minutes increase for Justin Holiday, according to Durando. Holiday only averages 8.2 minutes and has seen time in just six games, but he drew praise from Malone after Friday’s contest.

“I thought Justin played pretty well,” Malone said. “So we’ll see. We’re going home. Very disappointing road trip. … That’s the challenge when you have so many young, unproven players off the bench. But we also have games to win, and that delicate balance is a tightrope. But we need to win, and I’m gonna play the guys that are gonna help us get a win.”

Even though Reggie Jackson hasn’t been able to replicate what Murray brought to the starting lineup, Malone continues to praise the guard, whose production helped offset the bench’s issues when Murray was healthy.

“We’re playing lineups out there with no point guard,” Malone said. “We probably had quite a few minutes of that tonight. … Reggie, I think, has done a really good job in place of Jamal. But just like if Nikola goes down, we don’t have another Nikola Jokic. We don’t have another Jamal Murray.”

Outside of turning to Holiday, Denver’s options off the bench are limited. Vlatko Cancar was expected to play a bigger role this year but is missing the season with an ACL injury he suffered in August. Denver also has rookies Jalen Pickett and Hunter Tyson under standard contracts but that might not solve the issue of giving too much responsibility to younger players.

Outside of that, the only other veteran who isn’t currently a part of the rotation is 35-year-old DeAndre Jordan. Two-way players Collin Gillespie, Jay Huff and Braxton Key could also be in line for minutes.

In-Season Tournament Updates: Pacers Clinch Top-Two Seed, Six Teams Eliminated

November 25th, 2023 at 11:23am CST by Tristan Tucker

The Nuggets, Bulls, Raptors, Thunder, Clippers and Mavericks were all eliminated from the NBA’s inaugural in-season tournament in the group stage following Friday’s game results, marking 12 total teams out of contention.

The Pacers and Lakers remain the only two teams to clinch spots in the quarterfinals so far, with six more spots up for grabs. The final day of group stage play is Tuesday, Nov. 28 and the quarterfinals will take place on Dec. 4 and 5.

ESPN’s Tim Bontemps took a look at all the action from Friday, which featured numerous upsets that set the stage for some interesting scenarios to play out. By beating Detroit on Friday, Indiana won East Group A and guaranteed a top-two seed in the Eastern Conference. The Bucks–Heat game on Tuesday dictates who earns the top overall seed in the East. If the Bucks win, Milwaukee is the conference’s top seed, but if Miami wins, it will be the Pacers. A Miami loss eliminates the Heat.

If the Heat and Knicks win, there will be a three-way tiebreaker between Miami, Milwaukee and New York that is determined by point differential. In that scenario, the Heat would have to beat the Bucks by eight more points than the Knicks beat the Hornets on Tuesday in order to have a chance.

Orlando defeated Boston on Friday, meaning the Magic‘s chances of winning East Group C are bolstered. With the Raptors and Bulls eliminated, the Celtics, Magic and Nets are competing for that group.

The Suns‘ win over Memphis in their final group stage game helped them take steps toward securing a wild-card spot, finishing their games at 3-1 with a plus-34 point differential. The Lakers play in West Group A alongside the Suns and, given the wild card team plays the top seed, it’s likely they’ll face off against each other in the quarterfinals. The only way the Lakers don’t earn the West’s top seed is if the Kings beat the Warriors on Tuesday by 46 or more points.

West Group B got shaken up with the Rockets upsetting and eliminating the Nuggets on Friday, and the Pelicans are now the runaway favorite to win the group, according to Bontemps. The Pelicans beat the Clippers, eliminating them, and improving to 3-1. The Pelicans are not in front of the Suns for the wild card spot and will need the Rockets to lose in order to clinch the group.

The Kings are looking like a top contender for the tournament title, sitting at 3-0 and plus-29. If the Kings beat the Warriors on Tuesday, they advance. If both Sacramento and Minnesota lose, the Warriors win the group. If both Golden State and Minnesota win, it sets up a three-way tie to be decided by point differential. The Warriors are plus-5 and the Timberwolves are minus-3.

Any team that makes the quarterfinals clinches per-player bonuses worth at least $50K. The value of those bonuses would increase to $100K if they advance to the semifinals, $200K if they make the final, and $500K if they win the entire tournament.

The full in-season tournament standings can be found here.

Northwest Notes: Scoot, Malone, Jazz, LaVine

November 23rd, 2023 at 10:24pm CST by Alex Kirschenbaum

Rookie point guard Scoot Henderson seems to be reinvigorating the Trail Blazers upon returning to action, writes Aaron Fentress of The Oregonian.

Fentress notes that an eye examination indicated that Henderson was in need of contact lenses. He is now wearing goggles to keep the lenses in place. On Wednesday, he suited up for his first game since incurring an ankle injury on November 1. Portland beat the Jazz 121-105.

“It was just as I’m getting older, even though I’m 19, eyesight changes sometimes,” Henderson said. “The doctor just recommended the contacts and just for protection, the goggles. And they are stylish.”

Power forward Jerami Grant appreciated what Henderson brought to the table. Although he scored just three points on 1-of-7 field goal shooting, Henderson also chipped in seven assists and three rebounds and was a plus-15 in 17 minutes of action.

“He brought us a spark,” Grant said. “He pushed the pace for us. We played faster than we’ve been playing over the last whatever games that he hasn’t played.”

There’s more out of the Northwest Division:

The Trail Blazers have assigned rookie wing Rayan Rupert to their NBAGL club, the Rip City Remix, Portland has announced (via Twitter).
Nuggets head coach Michael Malone recently weighed in on his lucrative new multiyear extension, writes Bennett Durando of The Denver Post. “It’s a place where I truly enjoy going to work every day because of the people I work with,” said Malone, the son of NBA lifer Brendan Malone. “I grew up in this business, and you know how difficult the job can be for a coach, for their assistant coaches, for the families. When I moved to Denver, I think my daughters were in third and fifth grade. And the fact that I’m going to see both my daughters graduate high school (in Denver) — that never happens in this business… So I always remind myself how lucky and fortunate I am, because to coach in the NBA is truly a blessing for me and my family.”
With Bulls shooting guard Zach LaVine possibly on the trade block, Tony Jones of The Athletic considers whether he’d be a good fit on the Jazz. LaVine’s skill set as a three-level scorer and terrific offensive contributor capable of improvising creatively late in games make him an intriguing piece for a team in need of some scoring punch. However, his pricey contract, which will pay him $43MM next season, should give Utah some pause, Jones opines.

Nuggets Notes: Malone, Jokic, Gordon, Adelman, Murray

November 21st, 2023 at 10:00pm CST by Dana Gauruder

Nuggets coach Michael Malone and superstar Nikola Jokic were both ejected during the first half at Detroit on Monday. They watched in the locker room as the team pulled out a 107-103 victory over the downtrodden Pistons, Bennett Durando of the Denver Post writes.

“When you make a good play, we’re pumping our fists, we’re excited, we’re hugging,” Malone said. “And when you don’t make a good play, I’m cursing in Serbian.”

At times, Malone had to isolate himself during the tightly-contested game.

“I can’t just sit there,” he said. “I was in the back room, the training room, the locker room. And if (Detroit) went on a run, I’d go to a different room to see if I could switch the mojo up a little bit.”

We have more on the Nuggets:

David Adelman filled in for Malone, as he has in the past, and forward Aaron Gordon said Adelman is overdue for a head coaching job, he told Durando in the same story. “D.A. could be a head coach anywhere in the league,” Gordon said. “He deserves a head coach job. We’re lucky that he’s with us. We’re happy that he’s with us, for times like this.” Adelman interviewed for the Raptors’ head coaching opening this past offseason.
Gordon understands why Jokic has gotten frustrated with the officiating, Durando tweets. “He doesn’t need to apologize. They’re fouling him, and they’re not reffing him by the book,” Gordon said. “They’re putting two hands on him. They’re pushing him. It’s a foul.”
Jamal Murray hasn’t played since Nov. 4 due to a right hamstring strain and he’s unlikely to return during the current road trip, Katy Winge of AltitudeTV tweets. Malone said there’s “still some work to be done for him to be cleared.” Murray has been doing pregame workouts and some sprinting.
Malone has officially signed a multi-year extension. Get the details here.

Michael Malone Signs Extension With Nuggets

November 21st, 2023 at 4:42pm CST by Arthur Hill

NOVEMBER 21: The multiyear extension is official, the team announced in a press release.

“We are thrilled to announce this extension with Coach Malone and to keep him leading the Nuggets for years to come,” said Kroenke Sports & Entertainment vice chairman Josh Kroenke. “To see our team continue to improve year after year, culminating with our ultimate goal of an NBA championship is exactly what we all envisioned on the day we hired Michael in 2015. This extension is extremely well deserved and there’s no question about the commitment and dedication that Michael has shown to our organization.”

NOVEMBER 13: After winning the NBA title, Nuggets coach Michael Malone has been rewarded with an extension that will make him one of the highest-paid coaches in the league, reports Adrian Wojnarowski of ESPN.

Malone’s extension will cover two more years in addition to the two remaining on his current deal, a source tells Mike Singer (Twitter link). That would put him under contract through the 2026/27 season.

Malone came to Denver in 2015, taking over a team that was near the bottom of the league. After missing the playoffs in his first three seasons, he has guided the Nuggets to the postseason in each of the past five years, culminating last spring with the first championship in franchise history.

With 375 wins in Denver, Malone is already third on the Nuggets’ career list behind Doug Moe and George Karl, and he’s likely to move into the top spot by next season. Wojnarowski points out that Denver has the NBA’s second-best winning percentage since 2018/19, behind only Milwaukee.

Malone is the fourth longest-tenured coach in the league, Woj adds. Only Gregg Popovich, Erick Spoelstra and Steve Kerr have spent more time with their current teams.

[RELATED: Longest-Tenured NBA Head Coaches]

Malone, 52, is the son of former NBA coach Brendan Malone, who passed away last month. He also served as head coach of the Kings for a little more than a season prior to his time with the Nuggets and spent time as an assistant with the Knicks, Cavaliers, Hornets and Warriors.

Northwest Notes: Alexander-Walker, KAT, Thunder, Watson

November 19th, 2023 at 3:39pm CST by Alex Kirschenbaum

Multifaceted Timberwolves guard Nickeil Alexander-Walker finally seems to have created a unique niche with his third NBA team, writes Oren Weisfeld of Sportsnet.ca. Alexander-Walker’s versatile game has earned him plaudits from key Minnesota personnel.

“There was a lot of pressure on him when he came into the league, whether it be, you know, a lot of it was self-imposed,” Timberwolves head coach Chris Finch said of the guard’s early years in New Orleans, where Finch served as an associate head coach. “He was trying too hard, trying to do too much, trying to prove everything, wanted it all at once.”

In 19.7 MPG off the bench for the 9-3 Timberwolves, Alexander-Walker is averaging 5.4 PPG, 2.4 APG, 1.8 RPG, 0.8 SPG and 0.8 BPG.

There’s more out of the Northwest Division:

Though there has been much chatter swirling about the fit of star Timberwolves big man Karl-Anthony Towns alongside two other nominal centers, Rudy Gobert and Naz Reid, Jon Krawczynski of The Athletic submits that Towns’ superlative offense makes him worth retaining. On Saturday evening, he led Minnesota’s successful 121-120 comeback against the Pelicans, scoring 29 points while shooting 10-of-11 from the field, dishing out nine dimes, grabbing six boards and topping it all off with the game-winner. It’s games like that one that make Towns such an important piece on a club with major postseason goals, according to Krawcyznski, who opines that the Wolves are on too much of a roll with Towns to trade him, for now.
Although Thunder head coach Mark Daigneault is trying to temper expectations for Oklahoma City, the club is already looking much improved this year, writes Kendra Andrews of ESPN. Rookie center Chet Holmgren just turned in his best night yet, scoring 36 points while shooting 14-of-22 from the field, pulling down ten rebounds and dishing out five dimes. All-NBA point guard Shai Gilgeous-Alexander, not to be outdone, chipped in 40 of his own. A clutch buzzer-beating triple from Holmgren propelled the Thunder to overtime against the Warriors on Saturday night, where the young team pulled out an impressive win. “We have a young team that will grow over time,” Daigneault said. “We don’t want to cap the potential of any of our players.” At 9-4, Oklahoma City might be arriving already.
Second-year Nuggets small forward Peyton Watson has earned regular rotation minutes this season. The UCLA product credits some tough love during his rookie season tenure with Denver’s NBAGL affiliate, the Grand Rapids Gold, for abetting his long-term development, writes Bennett Durando of The Denver Post.

Northwest Notes: Gobert, Camara, Fontecchio, Kessler, Kamagate

November 18th, 2023 at 12:06pm CST by Tristan Tucker

Timberwolves center Rudy Gobert, like Klay Thompson and Jaden McDaniels, was fined $25K for his role in an altercation early in a game between Minnesota and Golden State that ended with Draymond Green ejected and later suspended. However, according to The Star Tribune’s Chris Hine, Gobert wasn’t satisfied with the league’s ruling and said this week that he planned to appeal his fine.

“You know every situation is different, but to me that was more than just a reaction,” Gobert said. “That was a personal attack. Me being fined when I chose to, when I was being a peacemaker and I chose to keep my hands up while I was being assaulted, is shameful. Shameful. And I’m gonna appeal that fine.”

Immediately following Tuesday’s fracas, Gobert called Green out.

“Clown behavior, and I’m proud of myself for being the bigger man again and again,” Gobert said after the altercation. “And yeah, [Green] doesn’t even deserve me putting my hands on him. My team needed me tonight. I did whatever I could to keep my cool and then show that I wasn’t making the situation worse, and I do hope that the league is going to do what needs to be done, because that’s just clown behavior. Not much to say. It’s clown behavior.”

We have more from the Northwest Division:

The 3-9 Trail Blazers have been searching for more physicality, size and rebounding in their starting lineup and may have found it in second-round rookie Toumani Camara, according to OregonLive’s Aaron Fentress. Camara has started the past three games for Portland, replacing Matisse Thybulle. While Portland lost all three games, Camara’s impressive rookie season is continuing. In his three starts, he’s averaging 6.3 points, 4.0 rebounds, 1.3 steals and 1.0 blocks. “Tou is going to be who he is going to be no matter if he’s starting or not,” head coach Chauncey Billups said. “He’s going to be the same guy. He’s going to scrap, he’s going to claw, he’s going to rebound. He’s going to protect the rim a little. He’s going to always be who he is.“
Simone Fontecchio feels more comfortable with the Jazz in his second season with the team, even if the minutes haven’t come yet, according to The Deseret News’ Sarah Todd. Fontecchio had been bouncing around international rosters, along with playing for the Italian national team, before joining the Jazz. The fact that Utah had other international players that Fontecchio could relate to was huge for his acclimation. “He has an ability to really stay ready,” coach Will Hardy said. “Whether he plays a ton of minutes or whether he plays zero. Obviously his threat of shooting is is great for us. But I’m more excited about all the the other things that he does — crashing the glass, changing things on the floor, he is a great cutter, and he really has a toughness about him that I think our team needs.“
Jazz center Walker Kessler is out for around two weeks with a UCL injury that usually requires Tommy John surgery. UCL injuries in basketball are a bit rare, but it’s a positive sign Kessler was diagnosed with a sprain and not a tear, according to The Salt Lake Tribune’s Eric Walden. Walden broke down the injury with a doctor, concluding that ligament isn’t used often in basketball, and the injury shouldn’t be worrisome.
The Nuggets selected Ismael Kamagate with the 46th overall pick in the 2022 NBA draft. He’s currently playing his first EuroLeague season with Milan and got to play with the Nuggets in Summer League this past season, averaging 6.8 points, 6.0 rebounds and 1.5 blocks across four starts. Though he admitted to Eurohoops.net that playing in the NBA is his dream, he’s willing to be patient. “We just have to not rush the process, because that’s how to can lose yourself. Take your time, do what you can do. In the team, everybody can do everything. You have to master what you do better, and that’s what I learned this summer,” Kamagate said.

Nuggets Notes: Jackson, Jokic, LaVine, Development, More

November 17th, 2023 at 4:01pm CST by Luke Adams

Nuggets guard Reggie Jackson, who joined the team in February of last season, has gotten accustomed to playing with two-time MVP Nikola Jokic by now, but it’s not an experience he’s taking for granted, he said earlier this week, per Ryan Blackburn of Mile High Sports (Twitter link).

“Just watching him control the game, watching how special he is, watching his mind just work over and over again,” Jackson said. “The way he works, just takes over the game physically but really mentally. It’s special.

“… Like I said, I refuse to take it for granted. Being his teammate, playing against him for many years… when you have something special, you have to enjoy it, because you never know how long you’re going to have it, and when it’s gone you will truly miss it. So, I’m just enjoying being his teammate, enjoying how easy he makes the game, enjoying playing as his teammate but also being able to watch him as we’re playing.”

Jackson re-signed with the Nuggets as a free agent over the summer, inking a new two-year, $10.25MM contract with the club.

Here are a few more items out of Denver:

In a mailbag for The Denver Post, Bennett Durando dismisses the idea of the Nuggets’ pursuing a trade for a third star, arguing that a splashy move like acquiring Zach LaVine would be “antithetical” to everything the franchise has done in recent years. Elsewhere in the mailbag, Durando answers questions about Michael Malone‘s potential Coach of the Year case and Denver’s defense so far this season.
The Nuggets are balancing title contention and player development out of necessity this season, according to Matt Brooks of Nuggets.com, who takes a closer look at how the team has to lean on young players like Christian Braun, Peyton Watson, and Julian Strawther for regular minutes, sticking with them through their ups and downs. “If Julian has a bad game, I just can’t say, ‘Okay, I’m not playing him for the rest of the season,'” Malone said. “If Peyton doesn’t have a good game, I can’t (bench him). Those guys need to play this year.”
Winning the in-season tournament is “a goal” for the defending NBA champions, according to Michael Porter Jr. (Twitter links via Harrison Wind of DNVR Sports). The Nuggets are 2-0 in group play so far, with their third tournament game on tap Friday night in New Orleans. “The incentive is always nice,” Porter said. “No matter how much money you have. $500,000 is nice, especially for young guys who are on their rookie contract. We all have a collective goal to win, not really for the money, it’s just competing.”

Injury Notes: Murray, Beal, AD, Pistons

November 16th, 2023 at 2:38pm CST by Rory Maher

Nuggets head coach Michael Malone says Jamal Murray will be traveling with the team during its upcoming road trip, which includes five games from November 17-24.

“I don’t know if on this road trip he’ll play or not, but I know from all the reports I’m getting he’s working really hard to get back and making positive strides every day,” Malone said, per Vinny Benedetto of The Denver Gazette (Twitter link).

A report last week indicated that Murray, who sustained a right hamstring strain on November 4, would likely be sidelined three-to-four weeks. The fact that he’s progressing so quickly is an encouraging sign.

Still, while Murray may have a chance to play on the road trip, that doesn’t necessarily mean he will, observes Harrison Wind of DNVR Sports (via Twitter).

Here are a few more injury notes from around the NBA:

Bradley Beal missed Wednesday’s game for the Suns after his lower back issue flared up yesterday morning, according to Duane Rankin of The Arizona Republic (Twitter link). Head coach Frank Vogel later confirmed that Beal woke up with back tightness that didn’t dissipate in time to play (Twitter link via Rankin). Vogel was evasive about a return timeline for the three-time All-Star guard, simply saying Phoenix has a plan to get him back in the lineup. Beal has only appeared in three games thus far for the 5-6 Suns, whose next two games are in Utah on Friday and Sunday.
Lakers big man Anthony Davis admits he was battling left hip soreness during Wednesday’s loss to Sacramento, which was the second of a back-to-back, but he refused to use the injury as an excuse for his performance, writes ESPN’s Dave McMenamin. “I just played bad,” Davis said after tying a season low with nine points on 3-of-9 shooting. “I’m not going to put it on anything. … It was just missed shots. I just played like s— tonight. It’s that simple.” Davis, who missed a game-and-a-half last week with left adductor/hip spasms, said he’ll be ready to go for Friday’s matchup in Portland, McMenamin adds.
Pistons forward Isaiah Livers has yet to make his 2023/24 season debut after suffering a Grade III left ankle sprain prior to training camp. While there’s still no timeline for his return, the 25-year-old was a full practice participant on Thursday afternoon, head coach Monty Williams told reporters, including Omari Sankofa II of The Detroit Free Press (Twitter link). Williams also said there were “no updates” on veteran guard Monte Morris, who is battling a right quad strain, tweets James L. Edwards III of The Athletic. “Hopefully we can get him to ramp up soon,” Williams said.

14 Players Affected By Poison Pill Provision In 2023/24

November 15th, 2023 at 6:02pm CST by Luke Adams

The term “poison pill” doesn’t actually show up in the NBA’s Collective Bargaining Agreement, but it’s used colloquially to refer to a provision in the CBA that affects players who recently signed rookie scale contract extensions.

As we explain in our glossary entry, the so-called poison pill provision applies when a player who signed a rookie scale extension is traded before the extension takes effect.

In that scenario, the player’s incoming value for the receiving team for matching purposes is determined by averaging his current-year salary and the salaries in each year of his new extension. His current team, on the other hand, simply treats his current-year salary as the outgoing figure for matching purposes.

For instance, Spurs wing Devin Vassell is earning a $5,887,899 salary in 2023/24, but signed a five-year, $135MM extension that will begin in ’24/25.

Therefore, if San Antonio wanted to trade Vassell this season, his outgoing value for salary-matching purposes would be $5,887,899 (this year’s salary), while his incoming value for the team acquiring him would be $23,481,317 (this year’s salary, plus the $135MM extension, divided by six years).

Most of the players who signed rookie scale extensions aren’t realistic candidates to be traded anytime soon. But even in the event that a team does want to look into trading one of these recently extended players, the gap between the player’s incoming trade value and outgoing trade value could make it a real challenge to find a deal that works for both sides.

The “poison pill” provision applies to 14 players who signed rookie scale extensions in 2023. Here are those players, along with their outgoing salaries and incoming salaries for trade purposes:

Player	Team	Outgoing trade value	Incoming trade value
Anthony Edwards	MIN	$13,534,817	$36,573,920
LaMelo Ball	CHA	$10,900,635	$36,134,889
Tyrese Haliburton	IND	$5,808,435	$35,286,189
Desmond Bane	MEM	$3,845,083	$33,512,589
Devin Vassell	SAS	$5,887,899	$23,481,317
Jaden McDaniels	MIN	$3,901,399	$22,483,567
Onyeka Okongwu	ATL	$8,109,063	$14,021,813
Isaiah Stewart	DET	$5,266,713	$13,053,343
Deni Avdija	WSH	$6,263,188	$12,252,638
Josh Green	DAL	$4,765,339	$11,441,335
Cole Anthony	ORL	$5,539,771	$11,159,943
Aaron Nesmith	IND	$5,634,257	$9,658,564
Zeke Nnaji	DEN	$4,306,281	$7,261,256
Payton Pritchard	BOS	$4,037,278	$6,807,456

Once the 2024/25 league year begins next July, the poison pill provision will no longer apply to these players. At that time, the player’s ’24/25 salary would represent both his outgoing and incoming value.

Until then though, the gap between those outgoing and incoming figures will make it tricky for several of these players to be moved, though it affects some more significantly than others.

The small difference between Pritchard’s incoming and outgoing trade figures, for instance, likely wouldn’t be very problematic if the Celtics decide to trade him. But the much larger divide between Bane’s incoming and outgoing numbers means there’s virtually no chance he could be dealt to an over-the-cap team in 2023/24 — given that the Grizzlies have no desire to move Bane, that’ll be a moot point, but it’s still worth noting.