Pistons Rumors

Pistons Notes: Weaver, Thompson, Sasser, Duren, Livers

After winning no more than 23 games in each of the last four seasons, the Pistons appear headed for another lottery finish in 2023/24. They’ve lost 12 straight games to fall to an NBA-worst 2-13 record through the first four weeks of the season.

Still, James L. Edwards III of The Athletic says there’s no indication that general manager Troy Weaver is on the hot seat. Although this was supposed to be the season that the team took a step forward and vied for a playoff spot, Pistons ownership is aware that injuries have decimated the rotation and doesn’t seem inclined to take a “sky is falling” view, according to Edwards, who notes that Weaver’s latest contract extension hasn’t even begun yet.

As Edwards points out, last season’s leading scorer Bojan Bogdanovic has yet to appear in a single game and neither has Monte Morris, who was acquired over the summer to bring a steady hand to a young backcourt. With Bogdanovic and Morris unavailable, the Pistons have the NBA’s 26th-best offense and have committed a league-worst 17.5 turnovers per game.

According to Edwards, the real evaluation period figures to begin once the roster is healthier, which could happen within the next couple weeks. If the Pistons continue to struggle once all their key players are available, some “uncomfortable conversations” could be had in the spring, Edwards adds.

Here’s more out of Detroit:

  • Within that same mailbag for The Athletic, Edwards says he doesn’t anticipate the Pistons will make any major trades in the short term in an attempt to turn their season around. However, he believes Detroit will pursue win-now moves far more aggressively in the summer of 2024 than it did this past offseason, especially if the club’s record in 2023/24 is “no better or barely better” than it was last season.
  • One bright spot for the Pistons so far this season has been the play of their rookies. In an ESPN Insider story published last week, Kevin Pelton and Bobby Marks ranked Ausar Thompson and Marcus Sasser third and fourth among this season’s rookies, behind only young phenoms Chet Holmgren and Victor Wembanyama. As Keith Langlois of Pistons.com observes, Thompson and Sasser should put Detroit in good position to have at least one All-Rookie player for a fourth straight season.
  • Second-year center Jalen Duren, who has missed five consecutive games with a right ankle injury, is making progress toward a return, according to head coach Monty Williams. “He’s just been able to do a bit more on the floor,” Williams said on Monday (Twitter link via Edwards). “He’s playing 3-on-3 now. We expect him to be back soon.”
  • Pistons forward Isaiah Livers made his season debut on Monday vs. Denver after missing the first 14 games this fall due to a sprained ankle. Livers was on a minutes restriction, according to Mike Curtis of The Detroit News (subscriber link), who says the 25-year-old spoke after the game about needing to regain his conditioning. He made just 1-of-7 shots from the field in 23 minutes, but appeared to get through the game with no injury setbacks.

Central Notes: Bulls, LaVine, Lakers, Cunningham, Cavs, Walker

While Zach LaVine has been mentioned in several rumors this fall after it was reported that both he and the Bulls are increasingly open to exploring a trade, the two-time All-Star isn’t one of the two players on Chicago’s roster that rival teams have shown the most interest in thus far, reports Marc Stein at Substack. Six-time All-Star DeMar DeRozan and two-time All-Star Nikola Vucevic aren’t on the list either.

All-Defensive guard Alex Caruso is the Bulls player opposing teams are most intrigued by, per Stein, followed by forward Patrick Williams.

As Stein writes, the Bulls haven’t made Caruso available, but he would have a “double-digit list of suitors” if that were to happen. As for Williams, who was the No. 4 overall pick in 2020, Stein says rivals still find him intriguing despite a very poor start to the season. Williams is set to hit restricted free agency in 2024.

In the same article, Stein says he’s heard the Lakers‘ rumored interest in LaVine is “best described (at most)” as to be determined. According to Stein, L.A. hopes that Jarred Vanderbilt (heel) and Gabe Vincent (knee) will provide a “meaningful boost” once they return from their respective injuries.

Here’s more from the Central:

  • As a former No. 1 overall pick who was the top recruit in his high school class, plenty of hype has followed Cade Cunningham. But advanced stats are extremely low on the third-year Pistons guard, according to Zach Kram of The Ringer, who writes that Cunningham has trouble scoring efficiently from all over the court. Kram takes an in-depth look at Cunningham’s game and his advanced metrics, suggesting that he might be more of a No. 2 offensive option on a good team rather than the No. 1 option he’s been made out to be.
  • The Cavaliers had perhaps their best win of the season on Sunday, defeating the defending-champion nuggets without Donovan Mitchell (hamstring) and Caris LeVert (knee). However, the victory didn’t answer the two biggest questions facing the franchise, according to Joe Vardon of The Athletic: Has Cleveland has improved enough to advance past the first round of the playoffs? And is Mitchell “happy enough” to sign an extension next year to stay long term?
  • Jarace Walker, the No. 8 overall pick in June’s draft, has only played 41 total minutes over four games for the Pacers to this point, mostly in garbage time. Head coach Rick Carlisle has told the young forward to stay ready, writes Dustin Dopirak of The Indianapolis Star. “This is what being a professional is all about,” Carlisle said. “He’s probably always played at every level he’s played at from middle school to high school to college, AAU, you name it, but given the present circumstance, you gotta be a pro and work at your craft and you gotta be ready. I talked to him two days ago and let him know. I said, ‘I don’t know when it’s gonna happen but your time is coming. That’s how it works in this league.'”

Injury Notes: Herro, Vassell, Pistons, Celtics

Heat guard Tyler Herro is no longer using a walking boot, the team confirmed on Monday, per Ira Winderman of The South Florida Sun Sentinel (Twitter link).

Herro, who has been out of action since Nov. 8 after sustaining a Grade 2 right ankle sprain, was set to wear the boot for 10 days. Assuming the original plan is in place, he will be reevaluated later this week.

Reporting after Herro’s injury indicated that he could miss “several” weeks, so it would be surprising if he’s back on the court in the near future. Still, it’s encouraging that he seems to be on track with the recovery plan thus far.

Herro is in the first season of a four-year, $120MM+ rookie scale extension he signed last year. The 23-year-old was off to a strong start this season prior to the injury, averaging 25.3 points per game on .446/.410/.909 shooting in his seven healthy games (all starts) while also chipping in 5.6 rebounds and 5.0 assists per night.

Here are a few more injury-related notes from around the NBA:

  • Spurs guard Devin Vassell will miss his third consecutive game — and fifth overall — due to a left adductor strain, tweets Jeff McDonald of The San Antonio Express-News. Vassell is one of 14 players subject to the poison pill provision in 2023/24 after inking a five-year, $135MM+ rookie scale extension last month.
  • The Pistons were down six players in Sunday’s loss to Toronto, but three have a chance to return on Monday against Denver. Killian Hayes (left shoulder sprain) is probable, while Jalen Duren (ankle) and Isaiah Livers (ankle) are questionable, according to the NBA’s official injury report. Livers, who has yet to make his season debut, was also questionable on Sunday. As James L. Edwards III of The Athletic observes (via Twitter), the Pistons don’t play again until Friday, so returning Monday would give Livers additional time to see how his ankle responds.
  • They aren’t injured, but the Celtics will be without two key rotation players on Monday against Charlotte. Veteran big man Al Horford is resting on the second night of a back-to-back, while Derrick White is out for personal reasons, tweets Chris Forsberg of NBC Sports Boston.

Central Notes: C. Porter, Giannis, Dame, Pacers, Pistons

Of the three players on two-way contracts with the Cavaliers, Evan Mobley‘s brother Isaiah Mobley and former five-star recruit Emoni Bates are the bigger names. However, it has been Cleveland’s third two-way player – point guard Craig Porter Jr. – who has been emerging as the one with the most important role in the short term.

As Chris Fedor of Cleveland.com writes, Porter earned the game ball from Sunday’s upset win over the Nuggets by scoring 21 points on 7-of-10 shooting in 25 minutes of action. It was an impressive showing for an undrafted rookie who was expected to spend most of his first season in the G League getting acclimated to the pro game. Porter has received an opportunity to play because Ricky Rubio is absent for personal reasons and Ty Jerome is out with an ankle injury.

That’s just one of the things they told me early in the year after training camp and stuff like that. ‘Just be ready, you never know when your number’s gonna be called,'” Porter said. “I took that to heart and it’s been working for me. … As the games go on and as some guys fall down with injuries and stuff, I’m going to keep getting my opportunity. Each game, the confidence just builds and builds. The coaches believe in me, and the guys are just pushing me to be better. I’m ready for it.”

According to Fedor, the Cavaliers had a verbal two-way offer on the table for Porter in the event he went undrafted, but the team wanted him badly enough to try to acquire an additional second-round pick after drafting Bates at No. 49. Cleveland ultimately didn’t find a trade partner, so the front office was relieved when Porter went undrafted. He reached an agreement with the Cavs on a two-year, two-way deal shortly after the draft ended.

“He’s mature,” head coach J.B. Bickerstaff said of the 23-year-old. “He’s an older rookie, so to speak. You just feel like you can trust him and you don’t feel like he gets rattled in the moment. It makes it easy to put him on the floor. You know what he’s going to do. … A lot of guys come into the league as young rookies and they’re still searching for their game. Craig knows what his game is. Never over his skis. That’s how Craig has been for us since he’s gotten here.”

Here’s more from around the Central:

  • The chemistry between Giannis Antetokounmpo and Damian Lillard in Saturday’s win over Dallas looked like what the Bucks envisioned when they traded for Lillard, writes Eric Nehm of The Athletic. The star duo combined for 67 points, 19 assists, and 18 rebounds in the victory, with Antetokounmpo racking up 40 of those points. Lillard said after the game that he’s happy to cede center stage to his two-time MVP teammate. “I think tonight, he’s the horse,” Lillard said. “I wanna see him be four-time MVP or five-time MVP and have those type of games.”
  • Sunday’s blowout home loss to Orlando was Tyrese Haliburton‘s worst game of the season and a reminder of how dependent the Pacers‘ success is on their star point guard, according to Dustin Dopirak of The Indianapolis Star, who suggests that the club will probably need a second star on its roster to establish itself as a consistent winner.
  • Due to a sprained left shoulder, Killian Hayes missed Sunday’s game for the Pistons, who started second-year guard Jaden Ivey for the first time this season. As Mike Curtis of The Detroit News (subscription required) writes, head coach Monty Williams said before the game that he has been considered bringing Hayes off the bench to add his play-making to the second unit, so Ivey may see more starts going forward. However, Detroit’s lineup remains in flux with so many players affected by injuries — it could continue to change in the coming days and weeks, Curtis notes.

Cade Cunningham On Pistons: “We’re Bad,” Compete Level “Unacceptable”

After winning two of their first three games to open the season, the Pistons have dropped 11 in a row. The 11th game of the losing streak was especially ugly, as the team surrendered a season-high 142 points in Toronto on Sunday and never held a lead in the 29-point defeat.

While head coach Monty Williams has said he’s encouraged by the progress his young team has made behind the scenes, point guard Cade Cunningham expressed displeasure with the Pistons’ effort level and said the club has to “be realistic” about its situation.

“It’s hard to just be like, ‘We’re good, we’re good,’ you know what I’m saying? Because we’re bad,” Cunningham said, per James L. Edwards III of The Athletic. “We have to address that. We have to address what we’re not good at. Address it with not only our words but on the court, in the huddles.”

Williams isn’t wrong that the Pistons have been a little better than their record suggests. Entering Sunday’s action, the team sat dead last in the NBA’s standings, but only had the league’s seventh-worst net rating (-4.8) despite dealing with a handful of injuries to key players, including Bojan Bogdanovic, who has yet to play this season.

That net rating took a hit in Sunday’s blowout loss, however, and Cunningham suggested the team’s compete level in Toronto was “unacceptable.”

“We’re the youngest team in the league, scrapping and clawing for everything,” Cunningham said. “That should be the last thing that needs to be asked of us or talked about; how hard we’re competing. That should be a given. When we wake up in the morning, we should be like, ‘We got to get to the court.’ (Williams) shouldn’t have to ask (about our competitive level). That’s something me and (Isaiah Stewart) are also trying to stay vocal about. Everyone has to come with it.”

As Edwards writes, Cunningham’s comments may be a good thing for the club. The former No. 1 overall pick is the face of the franchise and a leader in the locker room, so if anyone is going to step up and try to jump-start a turnaround, it should be him. According to Edwards, Cunningham and Stewart have helped keep the locker room connected, so there’s no “turmoil and friction” to worry about.

It won’t be easy for the Pistons to end their losing streak on Monday though — on the second end of a back-to-back set, they’ll host the defending-champion Nuggets.

Pistons Notes: Knox, Starters, Duren, Livers, Williams

New head coach Monty Williams has placed a strong emphasis on defense for the young Pistons, which is part of the reason why they’ve been using a starting lineup that doesn’t feature much shooting.

However, as Omari Sankofa II of The Detroit Free Press (subscriber link) writes, the cramped offensive spacing has played a factor in the team’s issue with turning the ball over — the Pistons are last in the league in turnovers per game, and third-year guard Cade Cunningham leads the NBA in total turnovers (64 in 13 games, or 4.9 per night).

On Thursday, Williams said he was considering making changes to the rotation to surround Cunningham with more shooting.

He’s seeing two and three bodies every single night,” Williams said of Cunningham, who was limited to 12 games last season due to a shin injury. “Making the read is something that can be really hard for point guards in general, but in particular for a guy who’s been off for a while. When you look at the film at halftime, he knows right away where he should’ve made the read, or at night when we talk, he’s already on it. It’s just going to take a lot of reps. I think it’s a combination of the time off, different defenses, the physicality. He’s got bigger guys and stronger guys on him every single night.

I have to do a better job of allowing him to play in more space. Think I gotta change up the combinations with him on the floor so the paint isn’t as crowded. I think that’s going to free him up to see a lot more clearly, if you will.”

Williams did indeed switch up the starting lineup on Friday against Cleveland, with newly-signed Kevin Knox replacing Marvin Bagley in the frontcourt. Knox got the nod at power forward, sliding Isaiah Stewart up to center.

Knox continued his solid play, notching 11 points, 10 rebounds, two steals and a block in 31 minutes. But the change wasn’t enough for the Pistons to snap their losing streak, which was extended to 10 straight games, notes Mike Curtis of The Detroit News.

Here’s more on the Pistons:

  • A significant factor in Detroit’s poor spacing is the fact that the team has been ravaged by injuries to open 2023/24. Second-year center Jalen Duren doesn’t provide much shooting yet, but his rim-running and strong synergy with Cunningham have been sorely missed after he sustained an ankle injury that has hampered him since October 30, according to Curtis of The Detroit News (subscriber link). Duren has missed the past three games with bilateral ankle soreness.
  • On a more positive note, Isaiah Livers, who has missed the entire season to this point with a Grade III ankle sprain, is questionable for Sunday’s matchup with Toronto, tweets James L. Edwards III of The Athletic. Livers was a full practice participant on Thursday. The former second-round pick will hit restricted free agency in 2024.
  • After winning two of their first three games, the Pistons are now 2-11, but Williams has been encouraged by the team’s progress behind the scenes, per Keith Langlois of Pistons.com. “When we watch film, they see the things that we have taught that they know they can be better at,” he said. “I see the growth. I know it sounds crazy, but when I look at the numbers and I look at the film, I see the growth. My hope is with the work and the preparation, we’re going to see consistent play and the style and identity that we want to put on the floor every night.”

Injury Notes: Murray, Beal, AD, Pistons

Nuggets head coach Michael Malone says Jamal Murray will be traveling with the team during its upcoming road trip, which includes five games from November 17-24.

“I don’t know if on this road trip he’ll play or not, but I know from all the reports I’m getting he’s working really hard to get back and making positive strides every day,” Malone said, per Vinny Benedetto of The Denver Gazette (Twitter link).

A report last week indicated that Murray, who sustained a right hamstring strain on November 4, would likely be sidelined three-to-four weeks. The fact that he’s progressing so quickly is an encouraging sign.

Still, while Murray may have a chance to play on the road trip, that doesn’t necessarily mean he will, observes Harrison Wind of DNVR Sports (via Twitter).

Here are a few more injury notes from around the NBA:

  • Bradley Beal missed Wednesday’s game for the Suns after his lower back issue flared up yesterday morning, according to Duane Rankin of The Arizona Republic (Twitter link). Head coach Frank Vogel later confirmed that Beal woke up with back tightness that didn’t dissipate in time to play (Twitter link via Rankin). Vogel was evasive about a return timeline for the three-time All-Star guard, simply saying Phoenix has a plan to get him back in the lineup. Beal has only appeared in three games thus far for the 5-6 Suns, whose next two games are in Utah on Friday and Sunday.
  • Lakers big man Anthony Davis admits he was battling left hip soreness during Wednesday’s loss to Sacramento, which was the second of a back-to-back, but he refused to use the injury as an excuse for his performance, writes ESPN’s Dave McMenamin. “I just played bad,” Davis said after tying a season low with nine points on 3-of-9 shooting. “I’m not going to put it on anything. … It was just missed shots. I just played like s— tonight. It’s that simple.” Davis, who missed a game-and-a-half last week with left adductor/hip spasms, said he’ll be ready to go for Friday’s matchup in Portland, McMenamin adds.
  • Pistons forward Isaiah Livers has yet to make his 2023/24 season debut after suffering a Grade III left ankle sprain prior to training camp. While there’s still no timeline for his return, the 25-year-old was a full practice participant on Thursday afternoon, head coach Monty Williams told reporters, including Omari Sankofa II of The Detroit Free Press (Twitter link). Williams also said there were “no updates” on veteran guard Monte Morris, who is battling a right quad strain, tweets James L. Edwards III of The Athletic. “Hopefully we can get him to ramp up soon,” Williams said.

And-Ones: F. Jackson, G. Davis, W. Bynum, Cooks, More

French team ASVEL confirmed that it has parted ways with former NBA guard Frank Jackson, terminating his contract with the club (Twitter link).

The expectation is that Jackson will move from France to China, according to Dario Skerletic of Sportando, who hears that the 25-year-old will sign a lucrative contract with a team in the Chinese Basketball Association. Jackson appeared in 214 total NBA games for New Orleans, Detroit, and Utah from 2018-23.

Here are more odds and ends from around the basketball world:

  • Former NBA players Glen Davis and Will Bynum are the latest to be convicted in relation to a scheme to defraud the league’s health insurance plan, according to a report from The Associated Press. While their sentences likely won’t be as lengthy as that of Terrence Williams, who was deemed the ringleader of the plot and given 10 years in prison, Davis and Bynum will “probably” face some jail time, says Michael McCann of Sportico (subscription required).
  • Sam Vecenie of The Athletic takes a look at which NBA draft prospects were most impressive at this year’s NCAA Champions Classic, identifying three Kentucky players – freshmen Reed Sheppard and Rob Dillingham and sophomore Adou Thiero – as a few of the youngsters who have improved their stock at the start of the college season.
  • Former Wizards forward Xavier Cooks received multiple two-way contract offers before deciding to sign with a Japanese team, sources tell Olgun Uluc of ESPN.com. According to Uluc, the belief is that Cooks prioritized “significant” guaranteed money overseas rather than trying to work his way up the NBA ladder.
  • Within the same ESPN story, Uluc says that the Cavaliers, Pistons, Jazz, Kings, Clippers, and Wizards are among the teams who have had representatives in Australia this fall to scout the draft prospects in the country’s National Basketball League.

14 Players Affected By Poison Pill Provision In 2023/24

The term “poison pill” doesn’t actually show up in the NBA’s Collective Bargaining Agreement, but it’s used colloquially to refer to a provision in the CBA that affects players who recently signed rookie scale contract extensions.

As we explain in our glossary entry, the so-called poison pill provision applies when a player who signed a rookie scale extension is traded before the extension takes effect.

In that scenario, the player’s incoming value for the receiving team for matching purposes is determined by averaging his current-year salary and the salaries in each year of his new extension. His current team, on the other hand, simply treats his current-year salary as the outgoing figure for matching purposes.

For instance, Spurs wing Devin Vassell is earning a $5,887,899 salary in 2023/24, but signed a five-year, $135MM extension that will begin in ’24/25.

Therefore, if San Antonio wanted to trade Vassell this season, his outgoing value for salary-matching purposes would be $5,887,899 (this year’s salary), while his incoming value for the team acquiring him would be $23,481,317 (this year’s salary, plus the $135MM extension, divided by six years).

[RELATED: 2023 NBA Rookie Scale Extension Recap]

Most of the players who signed rookie scale extensions aren’t realistic candidates to be traded anytime soon. But even in the event that a team does want to look into trading one of these recently extended players, the gap between the player’s incoming trade value and outgoing trade value could make it a real challenge to find a deal that works for both sides.

The “poison pill” provision applies to 14 players who signed rookie scale extensions in 2023. Here are those players, along with their outgoing salaries and incoming salaries for trade purposes:

Player Team Outgoing trade value Incoming trade value
Anthony Edwards MIN $13,534,817 $36,573,920
LaMelo Ball CHA $10,900,635 $36,134,889
Tyrese Haliburton IND $5,808,435 $35,286,189
Desmond Bane MEM $3,845,083 $33,512,589
Devin Vassell SAS $5,887,899 $23,481,317
Jaden McDaniels MIN $3,901,399 $22,483,567
Onyeka Okongwu ATL $8,109,063 $14,021,813
Isaiah Stewart DET $5,266,713 $13,053,343
Deni Avdija WSH $6,263,188 $12,252,638
Josh Green DAL $4,765,339 $11,441,335
Cole Anthony ORL $5,539,771 $11,159,943
Aaron Nesmith IND $5,634,257 $9,658,564
Zeke Nnaji DEN $4,306,281 $7,261,256
Payton Pritchard BOS $4,037,278 $6,807,456

Once the 2024/25 league year begins next July, the poison pill provision will no longer apply to these players. At that time, the player’s ’24/25 salary would represent both his outgoing and incoming value.

Until then though, the gap between those outgoing and incoming figures will make it tricky for several of these players to be moved, though it affects some more significantly than others.

The small difference between Pritchard’s incoming and outgoing trade figures, for instance, likely wouldn’t be very problematic if the Celtics decide to trade him. But the much larger divide between Bane’s incoming and outgoing numbers means there’s virtually no chance he could be dealt to an over-the-cap team in 2023/24 — given that the Grizzlies have no desire to move Bane, that’ll be a moot point, but it’s still worth noting.

Zach LaVine Rumors: Lakers, Heat, Sixers, DeRozan, More

The Lakers, Heat, and Sixers are among the teams expected to have a “level of interest” in Bulls guard Zach LaVine, Shams Charania of The Athletic said during an appearance on The Rally (Twitter video link). Charania reported on Tuesday that the Bulls and LaVine have become increasingly open to exploring the possibility of a trade after Chicago got off to another slow start this season.

The Lakers’ big three experiment with Russell Westbrook alongside LeBron James and Anthony Davis didn’t work well, with the team eventually moving off Westbrook in favor of reliable depth around its two superstars. It’s unclear how eager Los Angeles would be to sacrifice some of that depth to bring in another ball-dominant, offensive-minded guard like LaVine.

The Heat, meanwhile, were linked to Damian Lillard for much of the offseason and would perhaps view LaVine as an intriguing alternative, though he’s not the play-maker that Dame is. As for the Sixers, the belief is that they want to turn some of the assets they received for James Harden into another impact player, but the emergence of Tyrese Maxey has lessened the need for another guard. A report on Tuesday downplayed Philadelphia’s interest in LaVine.

In addition to monitoring LaVine, teams around the NBA are keeping an eye on DeMar DeRozan in case the Bulls decide to make him available as well, according to Charania.

“The sense around the league is whether it’s LaVine or DeRozan or both, there could be movement in Chicago sooner than later,” Charania said.

Here’s more on LaVine:

  • The Lakers are among five destinations that Yossi Gozlan of HoopsHype believes make sense for LaVine, but his other four suggestions are teams not mentioned by Charania: the Magic, Pistons, Hornets, and Mavericks. Dallas may not be an ideal fit for LaVine after adding Kyrie Irving earlier this year, but the Mavs have reportedly had interest in the Bulls guard in the past, Gozlan notes.
  • In a mailbag for The Athletic, Kelly Iko makes the case that the Grizzlies would be an ideal fit for LaVine, contending that pairing him with Desmond Bane on the wing would help the team in the short term and open up space for Ja Morant to operate when he returns from his suspension.
  • Steve Popper of Newsday doesn’t view the Knicks as a likely suitor for LaVine, suggesting that it wouldn’t make sense to give up RJ Barrett as part of a larger package for the Bulls guard, since LaVine is five years older, significantly more expensive, and has been more injury-prone.
  • As good as LaVine has been as a scorer in recent years, his best hasn’t been good enough for the Bulls, according to Darnell Mayberry of The Athletic, who suggests that it might be in both sides’ best interest to go in a new direction.