Though the Cavaliers haven’t confirmed it, a report tonight says they won’t approve the trade of Kyrie Irving to the Celtics unless Boston throws in at least one more asset.
The sticking point is the condition of Isaiah Thomas‘ hip, which Cleveland officials contend is worse than they expected after seeing the results of Friday’s physical. The Cavs are believed to want another player or an extra draft pick included to compensate them for the time Thomas might miss, while sources say the Celtics insist they were honest about Thomas in trade talks and will resist any effort to sweeten the deal.
At this stage, both teams have incentives to get the trade done. Cleveland has been getting positive reviews for the package it was able to get for Irving, who put the franchise in a difficult position by demanding a trade. The Cavs picked up Thomas, who has been an All-Star the past two seasons, along with Jae Crowder, Ante Zizic and the Nets’ unprotected first-rounder for next year. If the deal is called off, Cleveland would have to resume efforts to trade Irving less than a month from camp and would be hard pressed to obtain four similar assets.
The Celtics may have burned their bridges with Thomas (as did some of their fans who set his jersey on fire on social media), who has been greatly underpaid for his production during his two and a half seasons in Boston. There’s no way to know how long Thomas might be sidelined, potentially leaving the Celtics shorthanded in the backcourt for an extended stretch. Plus, Thomas will be a free agent next summer and may see the collapsed deal as a sign that he’s not appreciated in Boston. Crowder would also be returning to an uncomfortable situation, although he’s under contract through 2019/20.
Considering both teams’ situations and their desire to be the top seed in the East, should the Celtics sweeten the trade if the Cavaliers demand it, and how much should they agree to? Please leave your responses in the space below. We look forward to what you have to say.
I think the C’s should try to play hardball and argue that the Cavs knew what they were getting when they agreed to the deal. That said, I think they’ll have to add another pick, if it’s a 2nd rounder then that’s solid for the Celtics, if it’s the Lakers/Kings pick for next year, they might be better off holding onto IT/Crowder.
If it’s any first round pick the C’s should pass it’s a 2nd rounder or nothing if I’m them
Deal will be completed.
We all know IT needs to be dealt (wants max next summer and Celts are reluctant to give it,) but Crowder is another major reason… he was seriously hurt with the Hayward signing, and would not be a happy camper if he stayed in Boston.
Celtics need to bail if the Cavs want any more. This is a rare chance for a “do-over” because the Cavs absolutely won this trade and Boston can get out of it
What are you talking about? If IT is injured the Celtics just got Kyrie for Crowder and a pick. Total steal
A do over? So Thomas and Crowder are gonna just get over that Boston tried to trade them? Let’s put this in normal terms…
You’re up for a promotion at work. Your company then hires someone from outside the company to take the job. The new guy then fires you, and he hires someone else…
A few weeks go by, and you find a new job making the same money. Around this time, your old employer realizes the guy he hired to replace you is a disaster. He wants to bring you back to your old job.
In a normal profession, you’d likely tell them to F off. But since the NBA isn’t a normal profession, we’ll go with a hypothetical that says you have to go back to your old employer under these circumstances. Are you a happy employee? Do you just get over what happened? How long do you remained p*ssed at your boss? How much of your attention is taken by your dissatisfaction? Does it affect your job performance at all? For most of us, we’d stay p*ssed for a while. We’d have trouble not thinking about what had happened or even trusting our employer. It would have a huge negative impact on our performance.
That’s what it’d be like for Crowder or Thomas to return to Boston
Don’t give in to anything more than the Clippers 1st OR a future BOS 1st and a couple seconds. Draw the line there, don’t give away the LAL/SAC or MEM future first!
That’s the best deal Cleveland will get. They better not blow it. IT is a one year guy but Crowder, Zicic and #1 will help in a rebuild.
I think that most people agree that the Cavs “won” the trade as it stands because of the Nets pick. Asking for more is “just business” but I think it’s in bad faith. Celtics can stand firm. Celts were super respectful and grateful in their language about IT, so although some fans were knuckleheads, the ownership and management were gracious. IT is in a contract year, so even if he’s salty about the yo-yo treatment, he’s going to try to maximize his earnings at the end of the year. The Celtics will get back their overpay, and be able to draft valuable assets next year.
Thing is Cleveland has Boston by the privates. Cleveland can screw up and no one cares, we all half expect it, even Cavs fans do. However, Boston cannot afford to take an injured IT back and miss out on Irving. Ange held on to his picks until now and if he muffs this trade then Boston may miss an opportunity. If Lebron goes to LA next year then free agents may start coming East and the Celtics could be left with Hayward, Horford, and unproven Taytum/Brown
Leave it to cleveland to look a gift horse in the mouth. I have no doubt Boston was honest and transparent about the injury, too much publicity about it since it’s happened, and they’ve always stuck to the same course. Maybe a 2nd rd pick just to get this done, but otherwise you let cleveland do cleveland things, trade crowder elsewhere, let IT play for his next contract (elsewhere), keep the Brooklyn pick and let cleveland regret that they pulled this bs.
Yea your plan is to turn the keys over to Marcus Smart?
Terry Rozier time!
Smart and Rozier will never be as role as IT and Irving! Pssh!!!
Smart or Dozier would run a completely different type of offense without the need for the PG to have the ball in his possession so much of the time. With Hayward, Horford, Tatum, and others the PG will set up the offense without having to score as much.
Actually not. My fault for not being clear with my thoughts. If deal fell through, im saying let IT play this season in Boston as an audition for a max deal somewhere else, which gives Boston a year to figure out PG options. Smart is best off the bench as an energy defensive stopper, Rozier is good but inconsistent. IT coming back wouldnt be ideal due to sour feelings but he knows if he doesnt produce then he gets labeled a malcontent and limits his market for a max deal (already limited due to injury and size concerns), but if it allows the celtics to keep the Brooklyn pick (and potentially also then have the LAL pick) they could then spend a high pick on a PG via the draft. Also, Stevens is moving to a 3 position style and we could see players like Hayward, Brown or Tatum bringing the ball up so that makes finding a traditional PG not as important.
I wonder if they’ll pull in a third team to help facilitate something. Maybe the Knicks.
Boston should stand firm. IT can be traded elsewhere.
Not if he’s THAT hurt he won’t. Crowder and Zizic could be traded elsewhere, but IT would be a much harder sell.
I completely agree with the above statements that the Cavs are pulling a bad move here.
IT was the cherry on top sure, but the deal without him is still the best one available to them. If Boston offers a second round pick as extra compensation then Cleveland should just take it and go home and look at themselves shamefully in the mirror.
The Cavs play for titles. Without a backcourt force that goal is blocked from the getgo. The “best deal” that blocks your goal is not the best deal. I can’t make it any easier for you to understand.
An earlier anti-Cleveland poster at least advocated voidance rather than sweetening which is honest. You want to say the trade is already one-sided for Cleveland but you don’t want it backtracked… that exposes the lie. You want Thomas dumped and talk about shame.
Every team plays for titles, fanboy. It’s the NBA; no one plays to lose. I can’t make it any easier for you to understand, no matter how much rude argle-bargle you spout at others.
Actually there are always a handful that play to lose
Some teams tank. Some teams want potential for the future; youth movements; rebuilds. Some want to disrupt. The Knicks are doing a PROPER rebuild no less, so fans should ignore Melo. What is the best deal by most standards doesn’t mean it’s the best for the Cavs. Altman wants insurance in case James leaves but if he fields a team with a flat offense that doesn’t make it to the finals he will have failed and THEN “[Altman?] can just take it and go home and look at himself shamefully in the mirror”. Just trying to inform, however, I do have a rude post still up making light of hip injuries.
Suns Sixers Lakers Kings Mavs played to win right?
I don’t agree that cleveland NEEDS a backcourt force to compete, simply because LeBron brings the ball up so much. Yes, having a solid PG is great for Cleveland but I think they would still be successful with a decent but not great PG, so long as they have an additional 3 that could stretch the floor. They were pretty successful during LBJs 1st run, and they had the likes of Boobie Gibson, Mo Williams, Lebrons stepdad Delonte West, and Sebastian Telfair holding down their PG spot.
I’m shocked the cavs are getting as much they are getting in this deal. Have you ever been buying groceries and see the big “special” sticker on bread? That means they have to move the bread right then because it is about to go bad. Kyrie is that bread. They HAVE to move him or he will be an unstoppable force in the locker room, not the court. The cavs should just bite the bullet here and proceed with the deal.
I would sweeten nothing and tell the Cavilers to like it!
Exactly. Ainge isn’t going to get outmaneuvered by a rookie GM.
It’s a win-win move for the Cavs. Either the Celtics give in and add an extra pick or they don’t and the Cavs just complete the original deal. It’s not like the Celtics will revoke their original offer
Cavs can reject it.
It doesn’t matter how bad Irving’s defense is; he outplays all opponents in the playoffs except Curry in 2017, and there were problems inside that can account for that. When those problems were handled gm4 he went for 42.
Derrick Rose probably won’t last that far, JRSmith might be declining, and now Thomas has to rest his hips. It is not enough for a winning backcourt. Other teams offer more there even if they can’t offer a high pick.
Would even a sweetened package draw Mccollum out of Portland? When would Thomas be Thomas? Void. Irving will get back to it by the playoffs. The FO tried.
I heard 2nd-hand from the Cavs’ doctors that its 50/50 Isaiah ever plays again.
Bo knows
Demanding a sweetener is unseemly. Wanting Thomas to go away is worse.
Beany boy was correct with his “void now”. It’s turning into a fiasco, if it’s not already.
Bottom line is both teams want the deal to go through. However I do not think Cleveland has the upper hand nor do I think they got the best of the deal. The Cavs NEED to make this deal. Bron Bron is leaving and everyone knows it. Irving has 2yrs left and has publicly asked for a trade. If they do not deal him they will lose him for nothing. They need that pick to start their 4,000th rebuild.
Sure the Celtics want and could use Irving but this nonsense that IT will have hurt feelings and not want to re-sign is BS. Yoiu heard him back up the brinks truck…………..well if the Celts offer the max he’ll be happy. Simple!
And since when does getting a 5’7 guard who’s 3 yrs older, an average wing, a rookie and a draft pick trump getting an established All star and champion who has the stones to take THE shot that won the title for the Cavs (we all know who ran and hid at that point right?) Getting the best player in a trade means you won that trade. Show me an instance where it doesn’t. It’s amazing how everyone values a draft pick when it’s their team but that pick could be number 1 yes, but it could also be # 6. If the Nets are the 3rd or 4th worse team then doesn’t Cleveland lose on that end? Even if it’s number 1 maybe the Cavs draft Anthony Bennett again. My point is it’s an unknown commodity at best.
Bottom line is if I’m Boston I’d tell that scumb@g Gilbert to pound sand and send back my players if you don’t like it.
Probably a 1st round pick
The trade no longer works. It needs to be voided.
Trade will be voided. Celtics stand to lose a lot more than cavs if trade doesn’t go through. Again not sure why Danny ainge would try to trade for a player that doesn’t make them better than last year. The picks are more valuable and help you compete for years down the road and cost you nothing to keep. Should keep both firsts and use those in an Anthony Davis trade next summer when New Orleans realizes that Demarcus and Davis cannot co-exist.