One of the trending takeaways from The Last Dance was Knicks great Walt Frazier saying Michael Jordan wasn’t going to win in the league. After Jordan was drafted by the Bulls in 1984, Frazier said that the former UNC standout was “not seven foot, so he’s not going to carry a team in the NBA.”
Frazier heard that his words were in the documentary and defended his view this week.
“Early on, I wasn’t that familiar with him in college,’’ Frazier told Marc Berman of The New York Post. “Anyone who plays for Dean Smith, he holds them back. Vince Carter, (James) Worthy. You never know the versatility of these guys when they play for North Carolina. He keeps them in a team system. No one knew he was going to do what he did.”
“He broke his foot (his second season), I was like, ‘I don’t know,'” Frazier recalled. “And he was having trouble and complaining because he couldn’t beat the Pistons (in the late ’80s). He was crying he thought the general manager didn’t know what he was doing. That was when I still wasn’t sure if he’d be able to carry a team and make the next step. Then all of a sudden it happened.”
Frazier helped the Knicks win their first title in 1970. Years later, during the Bulls’ championship runs, Jordan knocked out New York on several occasions while Frazier was broadcasting for his former squad. He admits that he hasn’t watched the first two episodes of The Last Dance.
“I’m in enough pain with the coronavirus — I didn’t want to watch Jordan,’’ Frazier said. The Hall of Fame point guard then detailed his thoughts on who he thinks is the best player ever.
“There were only two players they ever changed the rules for in pro basketball – George Mikan, and Wilt Chamberlain — widening the lane for them,” Frazier said. “The two guys they had to neutralize by changing some aspect of the game. If not for Chamberlain, nobody would’ve heard of any of us. I don’t know if there would’ve been an NBA. If not for Wilt and Bill Russell. I don’t know if the NBA would’ve made it.
“I would find it hard to say Mike. Mike is right there with those guys, but if I had to pick, it would be Chamberlain.”
Hey lay off Clyde!!!!
I agree. At that point in the NBA the game was dominated by big men and centers (Wilt, Russell, Kareem, Chamberlain, Milan). While the game had some great guards in it, they still worked the balm through the middle or couldn’t succeed despite amazing individual numbers. MJ was a game changer
‘Wilt’ ‘Chamberlain’? Russell was before Kareem. Mikan, not Milan, played before Russell.
Damn. Clyde has the virus. Be well and get better.
Yeah, that was my takeaway from this article. Had no idea. Get well, Clyde, we need you. One of the very few joys of watching the Knicks.
I haven’t seen the tv special, but early on, Jordan could be a bit of an exhibitionist. And, the refs loved him.
Some people liked that, some not.
The special probably covers that. But what it likely avoids is that it was tougher for any black celeb in Chamberlain’s days. And it was a bad thing to be any kind of freak. Wilt had to kind of establish the right to be as good as he was able to be.
Meanwhile most people were on Jordan’s side.
Nothing Clyde said was wrong or outlandish. In the mid to late ‘80’s every team was still looking for the dominant big man. Ewing, Hakeem, Mailman, etc. At the time, the teams that were winning (Pistons with Lambeer and Worm, Lakers with Kareem) still employed big men as a big part of their games. Jordan moved the needle, making the wing player the most important guy on the court. In the mid to late ‘80’s, I don’t know that I would have believed that was coming either.
I also agree that Wilt should likely be considered the best of all time. I know he played in a much different era, but the league had to change/modify multiple rules because of him, and he dominated his competition at a level never seen.
Hard to consider Wilt for best ever…the lack of winning and his attitude which was part of the lack of winning take him out of the running when we have a choice like MJ ….or Russell, or Kareem
Lack of winning? He won two titles. You can’t hold it against him that he didn’t beat the Celtics, almost no team would have.
Wilt even lead the NBA in assists in 67-68, the only center to have ever done so. Wilt averaged 50 points per game for a whole season. Only player to lead NBA in points and rebounds in the same season, which he did 6 times. Wilt is the goat, unless the measure is championships, in which case Bill Russell is the goat. MJ is not the goat on stats or championships.
Didn’t realize Walt Frasier was a HOF point guard
So, would Lew Alcindor be considered the GOAT, too, since the outlawed dunking in games because of him? If you’re the subject of a rule, then you’re the GOAT!
They made the Defensive 3-seconds rule because of him, so now he’s the GOAT… Mark Eaton!
That’s a weird misinterpretation of what he said. Also, it’s Kareem Abdul-Jabbar.
Dunking was outlawed because of Wilt, not Kareem.
According to Wikipedia “Dunking was banned in the NCAA from 1967 to 1976. Many people have attributed this to the dominance of the then-college phenomenon Lew Alcindor (now known as Kareem Abdul-Jabbar); the no-dunking rule is sometimes referred to as the “Lew Alcindor rule.” Whether it was indeed Alcindor/Abdul-Jabbar or not, it most certainly wasn’t due to Chamberlain.
Thank you, Hubcap!
Jordan was the greatest player of his Era, and of the Modern Era. Wilt is the most dominant player to ever play the game of basketball it’s not a debate.
Shaq is a strong debate
Wilt was far more dominant than Shaq.
To anyone who watched Jordan, there is no debate. I haven’t seen Last Dance and I’m a Knicks fan. Jordan was the best I have ever seen. Not only were his Bulls 6-0 in Finals appearances but they never had to play a 7th game. But I mainly have my opinion based on how I felt watching him destroy my team. I respect other players games on differing levels but Jordan is the scariest player to root against. You just knew you had no chance.
I’m in the exact same boat. I hated the Pacers/Reggie Miller/Smits/Jackson (in later years), hated the Heat/Mourning/Hardaway, even hated the Rockets. With the Bulls, it was a little tougher because of how great Jordan was.
Fully intending to stir the pot, maybe the 90s was relatively weak in the NBA outside of the Jordan and the Bulls? After the decline of Bird/Magic, and the breakup of the Pistons, there weren’t any League Altering Talents outside of Jordan. A couple of arguments with some cherry-picked stats:
1. Jordan didn’t make it to the Finals until 1991, when he was 27, which is about the time most NBA players reach their prime. Prior to this, he lost to prime-Bird / Pistons teams. In 91, those teams, along with the Lakers, were past their prime and were getting worse or about to break-up.
2. If you look at the teams the Bulls played in the 90s in the ECF and Finals, you see a mix of teams that are either good, but not great (Pacers, Blazers), too old (Jazz), or too young (Magic).
Damn Walt going in on him lol
Some NBA team should hire him as their head coach.
Clyde was espousing the consensus view of Jordan at the time. First, the league was in the process of changing to favor his skill set, but not fully there, and, in any event, perception lags. Second, his offensive game was different (less efficient) than it later became when he focused more on higher percentage shots. Third, the 198o’s superstar model of Bird-Magic focused on making teammates better, which Jordan didn’t fit into. Mostly, though, Bird and Magic had won multiple championships, and Jordan hadn’t, nor had he played for one despite perceived elite talents in Pippen and Grant around him. The later early 90s greatness of the Bulls ratifies that he did have elite talent around him, although young. His youth, and that of his supporting cast, wasn’t considered factored in, probably because Bird and Magic won from the get go.
Fair or not, if Clyde had said Jordan was even the best player in the league at the time, that would have been controversial. Not what he said.
It’s my belief that Shaq would have been more dominant in than Wilt in Wilt’s era – and we see how dominant Wilt was. Most of the guys Wilt did it against, again in my opinion, couldn’t even play in the nba in Shaq’s era. I know “evolution” and all that, but Wilt’s era wasn’t really a tough one for him to dominate. Hell, the Lopez twins would average 30 & 15 in that era lol
*ignore “in” in the first sentence ;)