When the Nets decided to let Kyrie Irving be a part-time player — appearing only in road games because he hasn’t complied with New York City’s COVID-19 vaccination mandate — they expected him to prop up a roster that was decimated at the time by the virus. But that hasn’t happened, writes Peter Botte of The New York Post, who notes that Brooklyn is just 3-7 in the games Irving has played.
“I don’t feel like I’m very close to where I want to be personally,” Irving said after making just 6-for-20 shots in Friday’s loss to the Jazz. “The eight-month layoff, coming off my ankle injury [last season] and not being able to have the summer that I wanted to, not being able to have preseason, not being able to just dial in with the guys early on in the season the way I wanted to, it definitely had an impact.”
Irving’s return has overlapped with a knee sprain for Kevin Durant, along with hand and hamstring issues that have put James Harden in and out of the lineup. As a result, the Nets have fallen to sixth place in the East and are just a half-game away from the play-in tournament. And unless Irving changes his mind about the vaccine, he will only be eligible for 11 of the team’s final 30 games.
There’s more from Brooklyn:
- One encouraging sign amid the Nets’ downturn has been the bench scoring provided by rookie Cam Thomas, Botte adds in a separate story. With 30 points at Utah on Friday, he outscored the team’s entire starting lineup. “It’s good to get a little accolade here and there but it doesn’t mean nothing because we lost by 30, as well,” Thomas said. “So I’d rather have the win and accolade, but it’s always good to have a little accolade like that in your rookie year.”
- Harden’s frustrations in Brooklyn stem from having to be the primary option on offense so often when he expected to be part of a three-star alignment with Irving and Durant, Alex Schiffer of The Athletic says in a discussion with other writers about a potential Harden trade to the Sixers. A source tells Schiffer that Harden isn’t necessarily on board with Irving’s part-time status, but has been supportive because Irving has played hard when he’s been on the court.
- The Nets could wind up with a huge savings, possibly $40MM in salary and luxury tax, by moving Harden in a deal for Ben Simmons, John Hollinger of The Athletic states in the same piece. Hollinger expects a lot of haggling over assets before Brooklyn and Philadelphia could realistically work out an agreement.
Hopefully morey doesn’t consider more than Simmons and a salary filler for harden and I’m not sure about that. Harden on the wrong side of 30,injuries, numbers declining, way overpaid. Simmons, young ,controllable, huge upside. Walk away morey.
Well, considering one of the doesn’t really like to play basketball, and it’s all good.
Remember the Nets gave up 3 FRP, 4 pick swaps, Jarret Allen & Caris Levert for Harden, a comparable offer would have to be on the table for the Nets to consider a deal.
At a minimum I would expect this trade to be Simmons & 3FRP, plus a couple FRP swaps, if they don’t want to give up rostered players.
If Nets do get Simmons, I bet they flip him to a 3rd team, Minnesota or Sacramento.
Lol….no
There’s no way any team would give the Nets a young all-star player like Simmons plua multiple picks and pick swaps for Harden now. Over the last 1.5 seasons in NewJersey he’s shown enough warts via injuries, poor conditioning and not being able to mesh his game with other start players to significantly lower his trade value. I think the Nets should be happy to get a package of Simmons,
Thybulle and a future 1st.
If the 76ers gave all that up, Morey would have a lot of fans hating him. At end of season Harden could walk away from Nets or 76ers, so Simmons straight up for Harden is more than enough.
According to speculation, 76ers offer Simmons and Danny Green for Harden
IMO
They need to offer two firsts
76ers have only two Firsts remaining
Third team offers good young players
What was paid for Harden a year and a half ago, doesn’t mean a whole lot in the grand scheme of things. Harden barely played last year and has missed 10 games this year(+currently hurt) w/ hamstring issues. And anyone trading for him would only have him for 30 games + playoffs. If BRK got Simmons, a 25 year old 3x all star and 1st team All defense,w/ 3.5 years left for Harden, who has 1/2 of a season left on his deal- I think BRK would be making out great in that deal.
@ojdid
Harden is having a great year and there’s ZERO reason to think that Simmons will ever address his shooting issues. His inability or unwillingness to improve on that aspect of his game is the issue. And honestly, we have to change how we look at assists. Yes he averages 7 or 8 but he NEVER has been a floor general or shown the ability to analyze the defense and pick it apart like a Paul, LBJ or even Draymond.
Yeah the Harden pessimism has gone a little overboard.
From say 2016-19, you could argue he and LeBron were the two best players in the league (honorable mention to KD). And while clearly Harden is no longer at that level, putting up 23/10/8 on 21 PER … I mean if it was Dejounte Murray doing this wouldn’t all the cutting edge NBA commentariat be talking about a max extension and franchise player status?
Also, the comparisons being made to Wall and Westbrook (by serious NBA “analysts”) are just way, way overdone. Harden’s game, based on shooting and angles, should age much better than two guys who relied so primarily on speed and athleticism.
Harden is having a great year? He’s miserable,hates Kyrie and had 4 pts in 32 min in BRK’s 6th straight loss -to Sacramento, in Sac- where Kyrie(10 pts) was playing as well. Harden can’t wait for the next 30 games to go by, so he can opt out and pick a new team.
Hopefully ????
44.3 mill and 33 mil. That’s more than a salary filler lol. And Nets are not giving away Harden for a player who will never play for Sixers again. Get some perspective. Sixers will have to give up a player or picks. Along with Ben.
As long as Maxey and Thybulle stay.
Thybulle can go, he’s a good defender but unplayable on offense and his negatives on O far outweigh his positives. If he rebounded or was a gifted passer or had another great attribute i’d want to keep him. He’s been on a hot streak lately with 3’s and he’s barely over 30 %.
Maxey ain’t going anywhere. Especially for a disgruntled star. Teams have been destroying the sixers offense with a basic 2-3 zone defense and Maxey is literally the only player than can beat it.
Nets were asking “significant haul”
The trade is unlikely to happen if …..
I’m not a huge fan of defending James Harden but in this case I think his frustration is pretty justified. Because Irving’s status isn’t necessarily a one season issue. Going into next year there’s no reason to believe, sans vaccine, that Kyrie will be able to play.
So it does kind of beg the question—what’s the point of all this?
Agreed. Durant being injured is something he doesn’t have control over, but Kyrie refusing to get vaccinated and therefore missing half of Brooklyn’s games would be pretty irritating to me as his teammate.
Blame NYC, Kyrie ain’t refusing to play, authoritarian mandates have no place in a civilized & free country, right?
KD and Harden are to blame. They are the leaders of this team, and they engineered its construction. There is one problem, and it isn’t them per se, it is their apparent unwillingness to hold Kyrie accountable. They have been working all season while he sits on his highly paid ass. How do you think that affects team morale, especially of the non stars? Unfortunately he is untradeable, only team that might be desperate enough, the Lakers, could only give another headache, Westbrook, in return.
KD and Harden need to tell Kyrie to take a walk and let the real team mates sink or swim without distractions. They are treating him like the prom queen whom everyone wants to date. He is more the crazy girl who constantly demands attention, and good leaders would hold him to account.
A) They can’t physically make him get the vaccine
B) They already DID tell him to take a hike—then they played KD a bunch of mpg, and now he’s injured.
Where you can blame KD and Harden is agreeing to this with Kyrie in the first place, knowing his history of….somewhat erratic tendencies.
@Steve
Harden had nothing to do with the construction of the team. He was treated for after Durant and Irving were already there.
Non-Kyrie Contracts for BK, 22-23
KD 42M
Harris 18M
Mills 6M (PO)
That’s 66m. Now assume Harden gets his max. That’s about 47m, I believe.
So, IF Harden stuck around that means you have 112-113m committed to just 4 players. That’s less than 10m in cap room, assuming the cap doesn’t rise significantly.
Point being: Kyrie has Brooklyn by the t*sticles here and he knows it.
1) If Kyrie walks, Brooklyn cant meaningfully replace him via Free Agency
2) A sign and trade seems improbable. Even if Irving signs off, does a team like Indiana want to give up actual assets to make Kyrie their highest paid player….knowing he won’t be able to play in, say, a play-in game against NY. Or a playoff series against Brooklyn? Who’s the highest bidder here?
3) If you resign Kyrie, this circus repeats itself again next year, sans the ban being lifted.
It’s hard to see how Brooklyn makes it out of this without Kyrie getting his shots or the ban being lifted.
I made a similar post yesterday raising these same questions …..
While the negatives are def clear with Kyrie we must list the positives too
He’s still 29, would be the best player by miles and miles conceivably avail this offseason, and lastly he’s a PG in a very very dry point guard market in the NBA today
*The stipulations –
Gotta be a non vax state team
Has to be Kyrie approved for ext ( They don’t get a good package for just the mercenary year )
Brk has to {try} and get back right parts
** Now what Im even more interested in is what’s the new extension look like? Can’t be max right? Too much risk…. A 3/100 with the 3rd year half guaranteed ?
Now that’s low for the talent but you gotta hedge the risk right? If nobodies going higher it sets up a really interesting situation for a new team…..but when’s it not interesting for the 8th wonder of the world
Kyrie could play everywhere but TOR if he is traded to a team not in NY/CA as a visiting player he would be exempt from the mandate.
@Chapman Good point – I missed that. That’s a pretty big plus for an acquiring team actually.
@C&C Yeah I actually do kind of agree more with you, given that Kyrie could feasibly play in Brooklyn if on, say, Indiana. Teams like Sacramento or Minnesota or, if Griffin gets really desperate, even New Orleans could ostensibly pursue Irving for the same reasons they’ve pursued Simmons.
I do wonder though … if we get to July and it becomes clear that Kyrie is going to leave tens of millions of dollars on the table AND basically have to go play in, like, Sacramento or Indiana to continue his career—if he suddenly “sees the light” and gets his jabs.
After all, being an anti-vaccine flat earther isn’t quite as countercultural in the Beltway as it is in the coastal metropolises.
What do you think the extension looks like?
3/90 3/100 like you said sounds sensible if the market craters
But if he gets vaccinated and does a mea culpa to BK then I think they could give him the max or something close to it, just to keep their title aspirations alive
It could end up being a 70-100 mill dollar non-jab!
Talk about putting your money where your mouth is!
Seriously, it’s pretty crazy
The Nets are paying for their greed. They had a good growing team before KD, irv and James. I don’t think they will win a title with those 3 at least not this year. Jared Allen is now an All-Star.
They weren’t going to win a title with LaVert, Dinwiddie, Allen and Harris either.
I would prefer Beal to Harden. He is a few years younger and less likely his skills will diminish as quickly if given a max contract.
Not a mandate pusher by any means but Kyrie saying he “wasn’t able” to have the summer/preseason he wanted and “wasn’t able” to build chemistry with the team the entire front half of the season really underlines the selfishness of what he’s doing. He didn’t WANT to do those things. The people who did…. made it happen. I mean KD could have just patched things up with Dray and owned the NBA for another 5 years in Golden State. Harden could have just asked to go to Philly (where it looks like we wanted to go anyway?) The Nets could have just kept that very good core and all those picks. Instead everyone except for Kyrie is all in and it’s infuriating for him to act like it was impossible for team building and chemistry to take place. He shifts so easily into the victim role after constant self sabotage and it’s getting old.
40M in tax savings is by far more than enough leverage for the Sixers only to offer Simmons one for one or only include like Furkan.
Get a calculator. You still dreaming.
Let me just copy and paste this for you: The Nets could wind up with a huge savings, possibly $40MM in salary and luxury tax, by moving Harden in a deal for Ben Simmons, John Hollinger of The Athletic states in the same piece. Hollinger expects a lot of haggling over assets before Brooklyn and Philadelphia could realistically work out an agreement.
I’m not the biggest Harden fan, but I very much appreciate why he is frustrated, and has handled the situation in Brooklyn with as much class as one could have.
He was willing to be the facilitator and let Kyrie focus on scoring. He’s not stoking the flames on a deal or potential departure in FA. He’s handled the trade rumours well, and nothing that he has said about Kyrie is unfair, or childish.
This reminds me somewhat of Melo’s last 1-2 years in NY where he wouldn’t take the bait and acted like the adult in opposition of Phil’s barbs.
For the stink he made in Houston and the assets it took to get him to Brooklyn I’m not sure how much credit Harden gets for being a good teammate in the midst of a championship push. I’m not a fan of praising common decency. Common being the key word
link to hoopshype.com
To me I love the KD and Ben mix at the 3 n 4. Both are interchangeable at both. That makes them dangerous. But Ben will have to grow up and get tougher in Bklyn. Just win and nobody will remember the playoffs. There is no scenario where Maxey is not included in this trade. Nets liked him before the draft. I don’t see this happening without Maxey included.
The 76ers aren’t trading Simmons AND Maxey for Harden. There is zero chance that happens. Simmons and a pick or two is the Nets best hope.
Hate to break it to you Tim but Harden to Philly doesn’t happen unless both Simmons and Maxey are coming back to Brooklyn. Beyond that, if a deal were to happen it would certainly be off a SnT in the off-season. Morey can fool the Sixers fan base into thinking Ben is the most valuable trade chip in the NBA all he wants. It doesn’t mean the other 29 teams have to entertain his delusions. Philly holds 0 chips in a Simmons deal
The more I look at it; if Simmons is going to be moved before the deadline it would be in a shocker to the Wizards. Fiddling around on trade machine, what seems to make the most sense to me is Beal,Dinwiddie a 1st rounder and a 1st rd swap to Philly for Simmons, Maxey and Green. Washington does Philly a favor and gets them out of their mess and establishes them as a clear top 3 team, in turn they get two young pieces to pair with Kuz to try and redo that roster. I’m sure the Wizards would be reluctant to help create a monster in their own division just as Philly would be reluctant to deal Maxey. This deal to me is as good as it gets for either side if they’re both desperate enough to get a deal done before TD
Nash has said again today that they aren’t trading Harden. Harden said he doesn’t want to play elsewhere. Maybe it’s in the media to give the idea that Morey is doing the right thing. He’s not, he’s a moron. It’s clear that the guy can’t think ahead, shown when he opened his mouth about China. He won’t be able to make anything but a minor deal before the deadline, and he’ll say it’s so he can get ‘maximum value’ for Ben. Truth is, no one wants to deal with him.
All these delusional fans in here.
-It’ll have to take Ben Simmons and 3 first rounders for Harden.
-Harden is on the wrong side of 30, injuries, overpaid, and unproductive/falling off or whatever
-Aslong as we keep Thybulle and Maxey
-Ben isn’t even that good blah blah blah blah blah blah
End of the day Ben was a former number 1 overall pick, as a rookie put up 16-8-8 and won rookie of the year over Donovan Mitchell.
Second year was made an all star, putting up 17-9-8. Third year again an all star, all nba third team (as a guard) and all defensive first team. Led the league in steals.
Fourth year, all star for third time, number fell off abit 14-7-7 but was second in the DPOY race.
Besides his rookie season took his team into the playoffs every season. He’s shown to be one of the leagues best defenders. He’s an elite playmaker and passer, he’s a good rebounder, and still gives you buckets efficiently although he doesn’t shoot the three ball and isn’t good at FT’s. Yes he’s on a big contract and yes hes not ever going to play for the Sixers again but to think he’s worth as low as what some of you think is just stupid.
Just for some comparison Giannis, in his third year out up 17-8-4, wasn’t an all star and had never won a playoff series. His fourth year he took off won most improved, all nba second team, all defensive second team and was an all star.
So really Ben and Giannis after 4 years were relatively at the same spot. Giannis added a jumper and went off. If Ben adds a jumper just you wait for the LeBron and Magic comparisons to come flooding back.
Nets won’t ever accept that. That’s nothing and salaries don’t match up.
ESPN trade machine deal works fine. Salaries don’t have to be a perfect match.
Your an idiot if you think Ben, Thybulle a first and 2 seconds is nothing.
Well first you didn’t include Thybulle in the previous trade but that is still nothing why would Brooklyn trade Harden if he wants to be there+they gave up a haul to get him Philly is going to have to give up a haul lol.
Mr. Harden, please Shave that ugly & heavy beard off, your body gets too tired to carry that heavy burdon, especially thru playoffs. If you do that. You will win a championship.
Mr. Harden, please Shave that ugly & heavy beard off, your body gets too tired to carry that heavy burdon, especially thru playoffs. If you do that. You will win a championship.
When (not if) a James Harden for Ben deal takes place it’ll be something similar to this:
Ben Simmons, Mattise Thybulle, a first round pick and 2 second rounder for James Harden and Paul Millsap.
Nets get back Ben and Thybulle two elite defenders, Simmons who unlike James wants to play for the Nets will be going out there to prove everyone wrong. Under Steve Nash, on a team with KD and Kyrie, I expect him to really improve. I also like the Aussie connection with Ben Thybulle and Patty Mills. The Nets also benefit with 3 additional draft picks and a huge amount of tax savings.
For the Sixers, we get back James Harden an undoubted top 10 player in the league. Yes hes 32 and his production has dropped in Brooklyn but he’s the guy Morey and the front office wants.
He’s a former MVP, 10 time all star, 6 time all nba first team guy. Many have him listed as a top 5 SG already. Together him and Embiid would make the hardest duo in the league to up guard against.
I think Harden reverts back to playing SG and being given more freedom to score. I think he goes back to dropping something like 28-7-6.
Some may see this as cheap for the Nets who have up so much to get Harden but he is 32 and about to hit FA and said he hasn’t enjoyed his time in Brooklyn as much as he thought. Some may say Ben’s value isn’t that much and to that I see my post above. Some may not want to lose Thybulle but as much as his defence is great his offence is worse and hasn’t improved. He’s going to need a new contract too eventually and you can pay him for just his defence when he struggles to score more than 6 points a game, he’s better been throw in as good value. The picks, a first rounder will be late in the draft and the seconds are throw aways. We have a good amount of youth and don’t exactly need the potential as we try to win a title now.
Millsap is a nice gift aswell. He wants out of Brooklyn too, and we have a little hole at PF he can help fill off the bench.
End of the day it’s a win win win win. Win for Nets, win for Sixers, win for Ben and win for Harden.
Grades:
A+ for Sixers
A for Nets
#FreeBenSimmons
Hmm…..seems I have offended someone lol because my reply has disappeared.
Why? I said nothing dishonest. Synopsis:
Too many saying Kyrie should just get the jab
He don’t want it and doesn’t have to get it
Philly should just trade for him instead.
That’s it. Triggered some softy