The Lakers and Nets are exploring the possibility of getting the Spurs involved in a multi-team trade that would feature Russell Westbrook and Kyrie Irving, sources tell Eric Pincus of Bleacher Report.
Los Angeles and Brooklyn don’t appear to be on the verge of finalizing any deal involving Westbrook and Irving, with their discussions to date being characterized as “preliminary.” Irving reportedly wants to play for the Lakers, but the Nets don’t seem to have much interest in taking back Westbrook’s pricier expiring contract, even with draft assets attached, leading to speculation that a third team will have to be included.
The Spurs are the obvious choice to be that third team because they have about $30-35MM in projected cap room remaining. That doesn’t give them enough space to absorb Westbrook’s $47MM salary outright, but they could potentially get there by sending out Doug McDermott ($13.75MM) or Josh Richardson ($12.2MM), as Pincus observes.
In a scenario where Irving heads to L.A. and Westbrook goes to San Antonio, any sweeteners (ie. future draft picks) the Lakers would have sent to Brooklyn would presumably be re-routed to the Spurs as an incentive for taking on Westbrook’s unwanted contract.
While the structure of such a deal makes some sense, three-team deals are never easy to negotiate and this one would be especially complicated.
The Nets may want to resolve Kevin Durant‘s trade request before making a move with Irving, and don’t appear eager to rush into a deal involving either player.
The Lakers look like Irving’s only legitimate suitor for the time being, so they don’t want to overpay for him, especially since he’s on an expiring contract of his own. But they could feel some pressure to make a move if star forward LeBron James, who becomes extension-eligible next month, is pushing for it.
The Spurs, meanwhile, will probably have other opportunities to use their cap room to acquire draft assets from teams looking to shed salary, so they’ll have to consider all their options.
Appearing today on ESPN’s Get Up (video link), Brian Windhorst said he believes a deal sending Irving to the Lakers will “eventually” get done, but said it’s probably going to be “a fight along the way.”
Nets need to pull the trigger or KI is going to be a human circus come training camp. Should be entertaining though.
Nets don’t need Spurs players. It really needs 4th team to take Spurs players
Nets need better players
Ex
Durant for Saric, Bridges Cam Johnson and payne
Sillivan wake up. The NETS wouldn’t be getting the Spurs players. It would be the LAKERS because Westbrook makes $12 million more than Kyrie irving.
The Nets might get a draft pick or a young player from either the Lakers or the Spurs. They really can’t be choosers because they’re between a rock and a hard place with Kyrie Irving to begin with.
Agreed. Any team that has Kyrie on it, is seemingly between a rock and a hard place. No wonder no team, outside the dysfunctional Lakers, are interested in him.
Well, technically the Nets don’t have to make the trade and can just let KI play out the last year and be somewhat competitive if Simmons returns healthy. Why help out the Lakers and KI? Even better if Durant doesn’t get moved. Reality is the Nets don’t have to do anything and if the players don’t show up, they don’t get paid.
More to the point, this structure of a deal would be of zero interest to the Nets for this exact reason. They’d be getting literally nothing from it, and there’s no particular incentive for them to dump a useful player like Kyrie for nothing. He’s on an expiring deal anyway.
If Spurs took on the Russ deal and all the players where switching teams landed with Spurs or lakers nets would get a 35 million trade exception ! give or take a bit
He’s burned his bridge with the Nets. No way they play him if the trade doesn’t happen.
Yeah the Nets will pay a higher tax taking on Westbrook’s higher salary. Not happening.
If you focus only on the two problem children of this situation, the Nets getting rid of Kyrie is a far less urgent matter for them than the Lakers getting rid of Russ. Hence, Brooklyn has the leverage to demand two draft picks, and perhaps can convey them to a third team for the kind of quality player return the Lakers can’t provide.
Nah. KI expiring or Russ expiring. One is worth more than the other. If the Nets aren’t competing after Durrant gets dealt, they will want the larger expiring contract this season.
Nonsense.
I think Sillyman has a point: why not try to get a five-, six-, or even seven-team trade going to ensure the Nets aren’t completely gutted when all is said and done here? They’re only set to lose two superstar caliber players as it is. They can no doubt weather this storm and remain competitive.
Agree that multiple teams would want Richardson and/or McDermott.
Disagree that the Nets would rather trade Durant before trading Kyrie. In no way does that make sense, since there’s no advantage to them for doing so.
I think that a Durant trade would involve a lot more players and affect cap complications so if they do a Kyrie Irving trade first, it could possibly tie their hands salary wise and limit their options with a Durant trade.
They might bundle both trades even.
The Lakers were Westbrook’s only legitimate suitor a year ago, and they overpaid for him. So I wouldn’t make the assumption that they won’t overpay for Irving.
They will if they want to compete and drop Westbrook and his contract. LBJ isn’t getting any younger.
Get the Sixers involved so they can get Richardson?
Thybulle, Korkmaz, and Shake…
Not worth Richardson
Thybulle isn’t worth a whole lot man and it’s just salary matching, Korkmaz is trash. Their targets are JRich, Burks, Bullock… guys like Clarkson and Pat Bev may be too hard to harder without draft comp for them I know the Gordon rumors are there but he makes too much for matching.
Reggie Bullock can shoot the rock. Seems like every time he shoots, it’s going to go in. So smooth, so fluid, same form every time. Solid. Not sure if his percentage reflects that or not but the eye test is convincing for me personally. Does Dallas let him go, is he a free agent?
Don’t want JRich, been there and done that.
Kyrie netted mostly garbage the first time he was traded. Drafting Sexton that late is mostly luck tbh. But it was a 1st and some unwanted players. Crowder has done alright as a role player but c’mon that was the best asset in a KI trade? That’s like saying you got Rudy Gay and a future 1st for Ja Morant.
And this time hell be traded for a player absolutely no one wants except for cap clearing.
Sexton went 8th overall…
So did Ntilikina, Chriss, Stanley Johnson, Stauskas in the years previous.
Its darts on a board once you get outside the top prospects. They could have just as well selected Kevin Knox.
Nice attempt at a save. Give you half a point, and the ball at halfcourt lol.
Yeah the 8th slot has almost always been a bust slot. I think back to Jordan Hill, Joe Alexander, Rafael Araujo, DeSagana Diop, Shawn Respert, Bo Kimble, Todd Day, Marc Macon, Randy White. That is a lot of bust for one draft slot. Especially when you consider that aside from maybe Robert Parish, the best players in that slot have all been role players at best like Andre Miller or Vin Baker or Detlef Schrempf.
Evaluating draft slots like that is like applying numerology.
Those last three are better than role players.
Let’s just say there’s a shortage of stars coming from the 8th pick.
Agree in spirit with the OP… Irving’s terms do not end as well as hoped for!
It’s not numerology. It is a year to year comparison of the players teams deemed the 8th best player available in a given draft. All it shows is that the 8th best player in a draft is usually not going to be a star.
Sure you have stars that get picked after the 8th slot, but they are few and far between. And of course you can have players picked before #8 to flop. But in my judgment the #8 pick has historically been a kind of wall between the haves and have nots.
And yes, maybe role player was a bit of an exaggeration. But tI think you see my point that if Miller and Baker and Jamal Crawford are among the best at a given spot, then you aren’t likely going to get a superstar with that pick.
I think you meant astrology X% but I still got the gist
Netted, after the fact, perhaps. But at the time it was hardly mostly garbage. Crowder, whatever he did since, was, at the time, recognized as having one the best value contracts in the league. But your real miss here is the value of the Nets unprotected 2018 1st at the time of the trade.
Wherever the pick ended up, valued at the time of the trade, it was (as still is) the most valuable remote draft pick ever traded in the lottery era. They scored the #3 and #1 in the prior two draft lotteries, and were slotted to have the league’s worst record (which, at that time, meant a 25% chance at the top pick). All with a projected great draft class awaiting. What’s it worth (at the time of the trade)? I’d say at least as much as the picks sent to OKC and HOU for PG13 and Harden, respectively. As a Knick fan, I would (in a heartbeat) trade all 4 non-Knick 1st round picks we hold to OKC or ORL for its unprotected 1st in 2023, and neither as good odds of getting the top overall pick (or close to it) that the Nets had.
Nets are in the driver seat on trading Irving to the lakers. Right now the lakers are trying to trade him straight across for Irving. Nets are probably asking for a pick and a player. Behind the scenes LeBron is fuming on the slow process. Nets can wait until they get a offer they shouldn’t refuse.
which is why they want Joe Harris in the deal
Based on past events, I doubt Popovich is going to make any deal to make the Lakers better. I mean the haul the Spurs would have to get would be out of this world for Pop to agree, I would imagine.
The Spurs’ GM is Brian Wright.
I know. But Pop is Pop and he will get what he wants.
Brian Wright is the GM, buts Pops is the president and head coach of the Spurs. For years it’s s been common knowledge that he calls the shots.
Say, for example, the framework a deal looks like each team getting this:
LAL: Irving
SA: Westbrook + pick(s)
BRO: McDermott or Richardson +, Horton-Tucker (+pick?)
The haggling becomes the value and quantity of the picks. San Antonio knows they are one of perhaps three teams in the NBA that can accommodate Westbrook’s salary. They have leverage. So how much is it worth to them to take that on … one unprotected first rounder? Pick swaps don’t help them, because they are tanking. What is McBuckets or J-Rich worth … a 2nd rounder? So if I’m SA, I’m looking for 1 unprotected 1st + a 2nd, though they’re likely asking for more at this point.
From Brooklyn’s end, in getting rid of Kyrie, they got a role player in Rich/McBuckets and a young rotational player in Horton-Tucker. I think that’s still light for them. To make it work, they need a 1st from the Lakers, as well.
Which then brings us to the Lakers. If it costs you a 1st to shed Westbrook and a 1st + a 2nd to get Kyrie, do you do that? Two 1sts + a 2nd to upgrade Westbrook to Irving is heavy, since Kyrie could bolt for nothing in the following offseason. But their competitive window is closing fast, so it makes sense.
I don’t think that deal works. Lakers can’t send out $57 million and only take back $37. SA only would get involved if getting multiple 1st round picks and LAL only has 2 they can trade so that would leave none for Brooklyn. Don’t see the value for the Nets without a pick as THT and Richardson aren’t much value coming back
There’s no need for the financial games elsewhere as long as the Spurs have the cap space to absorb the difference between Westbrook and whichever player they send out. There’s no need to include THT in this deal. I believe for the purposes of TPEs these could be considered one-way deals within a three-way trade. For example, I think the Nets would generate a $36.3M exception for Kyrie and absorb either Richardson or McDermott into it. The Lakers would generate a $47M+ TPE for Westbrook and absorb Kyrie into it. The majority of the picks would go in SA’s direction. There’d be no change in roster totals in this deal for the coming season. The majority of the space remaining in those TPEs will go unused.
It doesn’t work from the Nets’ POV, not the Spurs or Lakers. Nets can’t take $47m in and only send $35m out. Although it’s not far off, only a couple million. So Nets would have to include a minor player.
I still have this dream that the Knicks will get involved, take Westbrook, send out Randle and Fournier and then buy out Westbrook. Then need to shift direction, they’ve painted themselves into a corner with the players and contracts they currently have. No where to go but lateral.
Dream?
Your dream is to throw everything out and just start over?
Are you even a fan if you think the whole team is garbage?
Spurs are tanking. Why would they want Westbrook?
I’d take Westbrook, assuming he’d play he’s gonna be a walking triple double like his OKC days. That will at least make tanking fun to watch.
Westbrook is the perfect tank commander.
I am the Captain now, and the Captain always goes down with the ship.
They’d want the draft picks in a year where their salary cap doesn’t matter anyway
Westbrook doesn’t win games by himself anymore. Taking him on would mean helping the Brooklyn Laker trade and thus receiving attractive assets in doing so. Spurs can still tank with Westbrook.
I think you are all dreaming. Spurs aren’t taking Westbrook
Theoretically as a player you’re correct. If Popovich was in position to WIN this year there’s no way. Absolutely spot on.
But to facilitate incoming assets to improve the franchise Popovich would gladly take a knucklehead in and laugh all the way to draft day next year.
Sit him like Wall
Big expiring contract. My question would be why they wouldn’t just cut the Lakers out and take Kyrie. THAT deal works quite nicely because the Spurs have plenty of assets to compensate the Nets and they can absorb him into space easily. They don’t need more draft picks at this point. And at least Kyrie would be a good player for a year. Maybe they’d rather lose 60 games.
The danger for the NBA is the Nets make that kind of deal, the Spurs cut Kyrie, and he ends up on the Lakers for nothing. I’d guess the Lakers have that outcome in mind and so won’t be inclined to be flexible with what they’re offering the Nets. Kyrie is perfectly willing and able to get out of San Antonio.
Because they have to pay someone and it would be better to get someone making a LOT on a 1 year deal. that way they won’t have to clog their roster with a lot of mid salary vets. They can audition a lot more rookies at low contracts and maybe find diamonds in the rough.
Depending what happens with Durant, a useful player on an expiring deal (Richardson) plus a 1st could easily work. But I don’t see even that prior to a Durant deal. Nothing at stake for BKN with KI is important enough to allowed it to affect their flexibility in what they can take back for Durant.
Exactly what I was trying to convey above, but of course you worded simply and a lot better than I did.
It shouldn’t affect their flexibility if they’re sending out more $ than they’re taking in. SA’s cap space allows them to do it. Using TPEs as I tried to explain in a separate comment allows them to do it while only taking back Richardson or McDermott.
Sure it does, even in the sense you mean it, since when you make two trades separately you’re not be able to use in the second deal any player acquired or the increment above salary generated in the first deal. Broader, though, when you make two deals where what you get back matters, the flexibility on what you take back is less in the second deal. That’s true regardless of which deal comes first, but most would want the greater flexibility when moving the more valuable asset, particularly with the different is as large as it is.
The Spurs didn’t want to take Ingram for Kawhi because they hate the Lakers. They would be in such good shape as a franchise if they made that move. Can’t expect them to act rational here.
Westbrook & assets to SA, Kyrie to the Lakers and some emotional satisfaction to the Nets? Do they also get a thank you?
Send Kyrie to the Pels with Durant so you can at least get credit for trading two stars.
Otherwise I’d be looking at Utah as a home for Westbrook since they have assets, want draft picks and are tanking.
The Nets, Utah and either the Knicks, Pels or OKC give you draft assets to get Utah what they want and then the other two teams can figure lout how to divide the stars. Westbrook to Utah is a perfect fit.
Cores could be;
Zion and Ingram to the nets for Kyrie and Durant.
Durant, Kyrie and Simmons for Mitchell, Zion and Ingram.
The big one would be getting the Knicks involved. If they decide to keep Thibs they should bail me out and trade the kids for Durant so I can just follow the Nets.
Zion, Ingram, AD, Conley, Quickley, Obi, Mitch Grimes and Sims to the Nets.
Durant and Simmons to the Pels.
Westbrook, Graham and a dozen pick to Utah.
Mitchell, Bogs, Val and Harris to the Knicks.
Irving, Randle, Fournier and Claxton to the Lakers.
I have a question for the group: If Kyrie goes to the Lakers and KD goes to (fill in the blank), do either (or both) of those moves make those teams better than the Warriors or Celtics?
Kyrie+Bron+AD in LA makes them interesting, but not good enough to overtake the Warriors. KD to the Suns gives them more star clout … but I actually think it makes them a WORSE team if it means Cam Johnson + Ayton + Bridges aren’t back. In my opinion, the Suns should stand pat and bring back Ayton. They ran into a buzz saw in Dallas who outschemed them and were hot from the outside. Suns, Nuggets and Clippers can all give the Warriors a run for their money, if fully healthy, though GS should still be the favorites. I’m skeptical that the Celtics can overtake them. Gallinari and Brogdon don’t move the needle much for me, other than giving them depth and injury insurance to get through a long season.
Good analysis, trog.
The Dubs are always one knee away from irrelevancy. Sure they got Kuminga now, but they couldn’t do squat without Klay. They also lost a lot of players this offseason, so they are not a super lock as lots of you proclaim.
On paper if everything works out perfectly, the Lakers would be a threat with LeBron, Anthony Davis, and Kyrie Irving plus a couple of shooters on the wing. I definitely would NOT want to face them in the second round or Conference Finals of the playoffs.
The power’s that be who are “in control” and the refs and the fact LeBron is still playing at a high level all Factor in. Yes there’s potential for the Lakers to be a lot better than they showed last year.
Gary you fell into a Bay-area-ism there. LJ is that good, just makes a good enemy.
If the Lakers get the deal the Laker media thinks is realistic, so that they can play AD, LBJ and KI without having to give up much else besides Russ and a pick, plus if they get good assets to fill the salary hole… Sure. Top 6 in the West.
But outside of the pro-Laker media, who thinks this outcome is realistic?
Everyone that follows basketball.
Lakers do not have enough assets to pay one team to take Westbrook and get a star player much less two. BKN wants a haul because they are giving up a “great” player and SAS wants a haul because they are taking on a terrible contract. LAL can’t pay them both off!
You are absolutely correct. All the speculation about Kyrie going to the Lakers is mostly NBA writers who have no scoop, trying to make it seem like they actually have scoop. Chris Haynes and Eric Pincus fall into this category. Notice how in this story Pincus never says San Antonio has any interest in this. He only dug up the fact that they had enough cap space.
Agree with both.
One point to add that Im not hearing is that there’s a salary floor, so Spurs have to take some contract on. But is Westbrook’s the best?— no.
Not likely because:
·RW’s salary a lot more than necessary
·it helps Lakers
·The Lakers don’t have much to offer
The threat that Spurs take on Irving’s contract, then cut him, also is unlikely because it helps the Lakers.
Hayward maybe, but Hornets are unpredictable at present. Actually Spurs are too, since they chose tanking.
Why would Pop want to pull the Lakers’ chestnuts from the fire? The Russ trade last summer is proving toxic to the Lakers and to LeBron’s ability to build on his legacy. Popovich would throw his body in front of a train to be as unhelpful as possible to the Lakers getting out from under it.
I said that already, quite clearly. Nobody said Pops wanted to help the Lakers, not in this thread or anywhere, indeed here said the opposite. Try reading a post Stodder before opposing it.
That’s because every GM knows KI wants to go to the LAL. Best case scenario if you trade for him is that he plays a good year and then signs with LAL next season. The odds of that are horrible.
Knowing KI, he will cause a ruckus all season if he is on any team not named Lakers. Is it worth giving up anything for that? Nope.
You think Irving will be useless this year? You will be surprised. It’s a contract year, and only Canada is off limits.
True basketball fans appreciate Russell Westbrook. I don’t care where he goes. He deserves another chance. He had one bad year with the washed king and the disabled AD and most dysfunctional franchise of late.
If he drinks just some of the kool-aid,
give me Westbrook for Lowry straight up
At least Russ goes to work every day
Westbrook has been washed for more than one year. He was just as bad in Washington. He just had the ball in his hands so he could get his triple-doubles. Wizards still got destroyed EVERY night. Westbrook is no longer a starter in the league. No jumper. He has lost his first step and cannot get past defenders anymore. He can only bully his way to the rim, but cannot even convert the free throws after he is fouled. This will be Westbrook’s last year in the league.
It’s not that he’s “washed.” It’s that he was never a player who could help a team win. His most natural role is to be the #1 option on a bad team. Any other role and basically he’s a negative and always has been.
Is a player “washed” one year “trash” the next? :/
The Lakers would be getting two things of immense value: Kyrie on the Lakers and Russ off the Lakers. So of course, the Lakers should provide most of the assets in this deal in return for those two huge benefits. This deal is the difference between Lakers contending for a title and Lakers NOT contending for a title. The fact that Kyrie currently has no other suitors is less relevant than the fact that the Lakers have zero takers for Russ. The Nets have all the leverage here, and the sooner the Lakers realize that, the sooner a deal becomes more realistic.
Why would the Spurs do this?
IMO, the only logical destination for Durant is Utah. After the Gobert deal the Jazz have the draft capital the Nets require. Moreover, Danny’s been drooling over KD since his college. He drew a fine from the NBA for sitting next to KD’s mom at one of his college games. That, and the failed courting attempt to bring KD to the Celtics.
That deal makes the LAL the clear favourite for the title, that’s for sure!
One can argue Lakers are perhaps the most desperate team in the NBA
LeBron holds all the keys, this currently constructed team will perhaps be the worst most uncreative offense he’s ever been in. (They’ll be more energetic /better D I think we will like Ham but it won’t be enough to overcome that dreadful Offence)
If at the deadline the Lakers look cooked he’d have to at least think about a trade to contender-
Cle matches easily with Love +Lavert or Love +Cedi Okoro . He’d be under rental status so not a huge cost but LBJ might walk for nothing if he doesn’t like the vibes Jeanie is putting off in the next couple weeks
So……… LBJ putting pressure on Jeanie today hardly only impacts 2023; it’s a decision that will probably shape the franchise for the next 5~7 years
Nets have more leverage than most think w KI here; Lakers can give best package but most likely be can be squeezed { and prodded, poked , and put on ice until they do decide to make the deal if so}
**Filling the roster so early kinda left any straight up trades w SAS and Utah for RW trickier to pull off. I think there’s deals to be had from both that make sense for both teams and can make the LAL pretty good 2023 but they are difficult today
I have an interesting Cha idea as well but roster spaces hurt that too – KI or bust
Get over yourself.
If certain teams knew Durant was going to ask out, they might have bid on Irving to draw Durant. But we cannot be sure that would even attract Durant anymore!
Does not matter now… the Nets will be running it back, fit or no fit. Any team trading for Durant will have to deplete themselves.
I would like to see Durant with Conley & Bojan though. (Mitchell would have to go to the Nets.)