The Knicks may want to find a taker for Julius Randle, but they haven’t been willing to part with any first-round picks in a potential trade, Fred Katz of The Athletic writes in his latest mailbag column.
Randle is about to enter the first season of the four-year, $117MM extension that he signed after receiving second-team All-NBA honors in 2020/21. That price tag makes it difficult to move him without some other assets attached. Randle is also coming off a disappointing season that featured not only a decline in production, but frequent battles with fans and the media. Katz notes that Randle finished last in effective field goal percentage last season among 112 players rated by Basketball-Reference, and the Knicks were worse by nearly 10 points per 100 possessions when he was on the court.
However, Katz believes Randle’s production was affected by the rest of the roster. Katz says New York had the worst point guard play late in the season of any team that wasn’t trying to tank, and the addition of Jalen Brunson, and possibly Donovan Mitchell, should have a positive effect on Randle.
There’s more from New York:
- Former Knicks assistant Kenny Payne, now the head coach at Louisville, is credited with helping Randle become a star, but he may have been sending counterproductive messages last season, a source tells Marc Berman of The New York Post. While head coach Tom Thibodeau wanted Randle to share the ball more often, Payne was allegedly pumping up Randle’s ego and telling him he was still “the man.” Berman speculates that Randle would benefit from a deal for Mitchell, especially if the price includes Obi Toppin, whom Knicks fans often chanted for when Randle was on the court, and Evan Fournier, whom Randle clashed with in their first season as teammates.
- The Knicks need to be careful that they don’t overpay Utah for Mitchell, argues Steve Popper of Newsday. He notes that although several other teams have expressed interest in Mitchell, nobody has been willing to meet Danny Ainge‘s asking price. Popper points out that the Knicks’ backcourt is already better than it was last season through the addition of Brunson and the return of Derrick Rose.
- Carmelo Anthony has interest in returning to New York, where he played from 2011 to 2017, Jake Fischer said on his “Please Don’t Aggregate This” podcast. However, Fischer adds that the Knicks may not share Anthony’s desire for a reunion.
Get rid of Toppin for Randles Ego. Great idea.
How about bringing in Westbrook at $3 million a year?
Sillivan, that would be in 2023-24, right? His contract for THIS season is 47 gazillion dollars.
If the LAL buy him out….he could actually sign somewhere for 3 million.
Lakers will not buy him out. Wouldn’t that buy out still count against the cap and what would he take? Owed 47 million so he takes 40.. you totally handicap yourself. Not happening.
@gary
If Indiana or San Antonio trade for him to get the picks, they would release him. Those are the only two teams that currently have the cap room to eat that contract for rebuilding assets. They discussed this in depth on NBA radio earlier in the week.
So yes, he could realistically be had by a team for the veterans minimum before all is said and done.
So Sillivan is right about this one. He must have been following the situation more closely than you.
Fair enough Lyman. Good call.
Can’t give up any #1’s to trade Randle. He’s a good player. That’s unacceptable. The Knicks should just hang on to him then. Carmelo Anthony has to go play somewhere else, or just retire.
“Good” players help the team finish 8th. Great players win championships. All depends what you’re looking for and how you gauge success. Good or great?
I wonder how little Ainge values Randle… The Knicks will most likely want him in the trade for salary purposes, which could be costly pick wise if Ainge doesn’t value him…
I think that contract goes against what Ainge is trying to do with the jazz. Maybe a 3rd team can get involved that needs a Julius Randle to be a volume scorer?
How do we trade Westbrook for Randle?
By calling the Lakers.
The Lakers have already said they wouldn’t trade Westbrook for Randle and Fournier. Not really sure why not? Those players would definitely be an upgrade over Westbrook.
Randle is limited. He doesn’t put you anywhere closer to the goal. Plus long-term contract. Westbrook’s pain is over after this season.
Not sure I agree. He got the Knicks into the playoffs previous to last season and 4th place nonetheless. I agree he may have peaked on a team that had few options, but I wouldn’t say he couldn’t help bring someone closer to their goal.
Randle had a great yr. But it was a contract yr. And really Knicks drafted Obi. So they might move Randle. I can tell you Randle did not like the love Walker got. When he came back. He wants the love and attention. Fans look at the whole picture. Not just his one good yr.
He’s a drama Queen. That we don’t need. I doubt very much he will accept beign the third or second wheel on this team. Catering to his ego. Is worse thing we can do. He’s got to go lol.
This would probably be their best (read: only) shot at upgrading their roster. Can argue about by how much, but at the end of the day you already know what you’re getting with the current lineup. They got to dump off Westbrook and build a competitive team around LeBron. There’s just no realistic way to accomplish this without taking a serious gamble.
I root for Randle, but he needs to stop settling for jumpers. Dude’s 6-8 250. Attack the basket bro!
I watched the full Atlanta series in 20-21 playoffs, and he kept taking contested 10-15-20 footers and threes, while not attacking. A great rim-protector as Capela may block/alter your layups as long as he is on the court, if he ex. Blocks You twice but You put him with 2 fouls in the first quarter or 3-4 in the second, he goes to the bench. And then have an Even clearer lane to attack.
He can beat his man and ram everything/avoid defenders on his way to the basket with 2 long steps.
Randle is undersized and gets his shyit blocked underneath. He HAS to shoot jumpers.
I don’t buy that Randle is undersized. Zion is even shorter and he cleans up down low. It has to do with quickness and aggression, neither of which Randle displays much of.
rct, if you’re going to be a great 6-7 power forward you have to be a monster. Even Charles Barkley was undersized at 6-5 but he got it done at the four position because he was a freight train and could leap through the building. Randle has none of those things, as you mentioned, and he is undersized.
If a player is 6-11 and playing power forward or 6-10 and playing power forward and has none of those things he could be successful and not be undersized. I guess I’m going on and on because I don’t understand why you say Julius Randle is not undersized? Charles Barkley and Zion Williamson and Moses Malone and Hakeem Olajuwon were undersized for their position when it comes to height. But they made up for it with skill or freak of nature leaping ability or strength. Julius Randle is undersized. And like you say he doesn’t make up for his lack of height like Zion Williamson does.
KP is undersized and he’s 7’3”. Aside from the occasional block because he happens to be in the way, his D is pretty damn bad.
I think rct is agreeing with you in theory, just stating that his height is applicable for the position(s) he plays, more specifically PF/4. When he plays center is when he is truly undersized unless he’s against a similar small lineup.
Wingspan counts too – I’m not sure what Randle’s is exactly but I would guess it probably doesn’t help his cause.
I don’t agree about him being undersized as a 6-8 and strong pf in the small-ball era. Hes got to attack the basket, that way, if he Beats his defender and attracts help, he can Dish under the basket, or kickout, and ger fouls.
He gotta take the Jumper, but once the defender starts sagging off his Drive, That’s an Open shot, he can make at a decent/good rate.
And, he can post up smaller defenders and bulldoze his way to the basket.
I love all the different opinions here. Good stuff, thumbs up.
@Gary – IMO, Randle’s offensive issues are not size related, unless it’s the size of his hands. Regardless of whether his hands are small, they’re horrible. It’s why he’ll never be a low-post player or great finisher around the basket. He also shouldn’t dribble into traffic.
On size, Randle wouldn’t be considered undersized if one uses height (he’s slightly under 6’8″ barefoot, which makes him a legitimate NBA 6’9″) or weight (250lbs). But he would be if you use length (a combination of wing span and standing reach). Measurements vary, but Randle’s wingspan almost always measures an inch below the PF average; and his standing reach underperforms his wingspan (common for big chested guys). Length is considered mostly a defensive issue, and these numbers suggest he’ll never be any kind of rim protector (and thus unsuited for major minutes at C). Thibs doesn’t use him that way very often (at all really), so it’s not that relevant for us.
DXC, Ok well said.
Really really rate Randle and think he’s just another example of how bad the Knicks are. All NBA honours, all star level player and is 1 of only 3 guys to average 20+ points 10 rebounds (technically 9.9) and 5 assists last season on what everyone is calling a down year.
Wish Randle all the best.
Trade ideas:
1. Randle and Reddish for KP and 2 seconds
Beal and Randle all star duo. Reddish and Kuzma on the wing. KP back to NY. Could help space the floor and defensively he and Mitchell would clog the paint and block shots.
2.
Knicks: Donovan Mitchell and Rudy Gay
Hornets: Julius Randle and Cam Reddish
Jazz: Gordan Hayward, Mason Plumblee, James Bouknight, Miles McBride and 5 firsts (2 unprotected)
Knicks get Spida and Gay as a vet combo forward for depth. Hornets upgrade at PF in Randle and Reddish come in for wing depth. Utah get Hayward back, Plumblee can help fill in at centre on an expiring deal and then Bouknight and McBride plus picks for the rebuild
Sorry wasn’t done
3. Julius Randle for Duncan Robinson, Nikola Jovic and a first round pick
Knicks get wing depth and another young player to develop plus another pick for Randle which opens up minutes for Toppin. Heat get a starting PF they desperately need. Randle can space the floor, play-make, be a go to scorer cans rebound well. Just need to fit into the culture they have made there.
4. Julius Randle and Cam Reddish for Jonathan Issac and Terrance Ross.
Orlando get Randle to help Paolo. Kinda forces him into playing the 3 spot but really helps provide another ball handler and play maker and can stretch the floor. Reddish in handy on the wing. For the Knicks Issacs gives them a better defender and better contract. Ross is a solid impact player from the bench too
5. Julius Randle and Cam Reddish for Marcus Morris and Robert Covington
Knicks get to scrappy tough defenders at the forward spots. Both still offer outside shooting and are perfect for Thibs. Clippers get another big name addition at the cost of some depth. Wall PG Kawhi Randle that’s solid on paper
6. Julius Randle for Jae Crowder, Cam Johnson and Torrey Craig
Suns find another big name to upgrade with at PF. CP3 Booker Bridges Randle Ayton that’s very strong. For the Knicks you get Cam Johnson who is a solid 3 and D guy, Jae Crowder is solid and Craig for depth.
Nobody wants Julius Randle. It’s an automatic downgrade at the power forward position. Don’t want him, you keep him. You signed him, you play him and pay him.
“It’s an automatic downgrade at the power forward position” this time last year he was all NBA second team so technically was the second best power forward….
Like I said he was basically 1 of only 3 players last year to put up 20+/10/5.
Can shoot the rock inside and out, can finish at the rim with the best of them, can handle the ball, can create for others, can rebound he’s a pretty complete player. Easily top 10 at PF arguably top 5.
As for those teams and him being a downgrade
Randle > KP, Hayward, Jovic, Issacs, Morris and Crowder
That was an award for his stats which were good. But the ball stops with him he’s a turnover waiting to happen and he does nothing for the offensive flow of the team. Just my opinion not disparaging yours at all, you always have good trade ideas and I enjoy reading them. But Julius Randle is a high volume stats guy on a non- playoff team. Sure when the Knicks play other non playoff teams he’ll give you 24 and 12. But if they play the Celtics bucks Sixers Raptors Hawks, he’s not as effective. 12 and 6 is what you’ll get. With four turnovers.
1. I’d actually probably rather have Randle’s longer yet less pricey deal than KP. While he had some moments in WAS the dude can’t stay on the floor.
2. A Hayward-Randle swap makes some sense here. Especially if GH ultimately gets routed back home. Makes a lot of sense for CHA now given the Bridges situation.
3. This might be the best one. Probably a tad low to sell on Randle, but Robinson is a nice potential reclamation piece no doubt.
4. Judging how Randle has acted toward Obi and RJ I doubt Orlando would want him anywhere near their young dudes. Also, I’m not an Isaac guy so I’d be out on it from NY’s POV too.
5. Makes more sense for LAC than NY. It’s nice for Rose not to have to attach assets to Randle but this is almost a salary dump to me. Morris and Cov are on the decline IMO.
6. Again makes more sense for PHX than NY. Cam is a decent addition, but if I’m Rose, if that’s the best return, I’d rather gamble and hope Jules just plays better this year, then try to trade him down the line.
While your at it Simmons>Russ.
Tim Hardaway Jr and Powell for Randall and Reddish.
KP Duex for Toppin, Simms, Barrett and a number 1 pick.
KP Duex?
As for the Mavs…
They plan on having McGee start at centre and Wood at PF, so they don’t really have a need for Randle. If they did have him it would mean moving Wood to C and I see that as terrible for the defence.
Plus I’ve seen a lot of mocked Mavs trades and they all include Hardaway. I really like him for the Mavs. Can play SG or SF, consistent scorer that doesn’t ask for the ball to much and reliable outside shooting which is what you want around Doncic.
I think if the Mavs were to be looking for trades to get better I’d look into OG or Siakim on the Raptors. I’d look at Bojan and Gay on the Jazz especially if you can unload Bertans. Then lastly Myles Turner, expiring contract, born and raised in Texas just out of Dallas. Would bring elite rim protection and can provided spacing aswell which would be the perfect fit for this team.
Do these media hacks actually watch games or do they just listen to what the agents tell ‘em? Not having a great point has nothing to do with how Randle is. He’s a ball stopper who settled for jumpers. In reality his best year was at the pelicans shooting over 50 percent and averaging 20 and 10 as a sixth man. The Knicks year was a fluke. The best thing New York can do is get rid of him. Randle’s attitude is toxic and can only hurt their young core
Real Knicks fans who actually watch the games know Randle doesn’t fit the current roster and must be traded. We will rehab his value and unload him before trade deadline.
Knicks missed out on Bane, Bey and Maxey for a PF when they had 3 players occupying that position ( Portis-Gibson-Randle)!!
They should pursue Beal instead of Mitchell. He could be the leader they need but I don’t see the Wizards taking on Randle contract.
They can do Barrett-Reddish plus 2 first round picks for Beal. It’ll be like the Celtics when they traded for Ray Allen.
Brad has a no trade clause…he’d be like “nah dog I’m good” If they somehow managed to keep Barrett however Beal might be down if Washington gets off to a slow start.
Yeah he would “be like” “nah dog.”
I don’t think Bradley Beal minds being on a team that’s not a championship level. I’m sure he’d love to get there but it be with the wizards. He’s comfortable being the man and doing it himself or at least trying.
Before he signed the extension the Warriors Came Calling and he said, no thanks. Some guys want to be the man even if it means you don’t make the playoffs every year. That paycheck is pretty enticing by the way and maybe in Washington there’s no pressure.
Say he went to the Warriors or another team in the hunt, there would be a lot of pressure to win it all and if he shot 32% from three making all that money there would be the whispers. He doesn’t want to subject himself to that it looks like.
To me the hold up on the Mitchell to NY trade is how little Randle is valued by Ainge… A pick or 2 more just for taking that salary….
I’ve probably been as low on Randle as anyone and even I think moving a 1st to get off his deal is bad business. To put it in perspective, he and Brunson will be making more or the less the same cash over the next few years.
And as disappointing as Randle was this year, I don’t think many people would say Brunson is a significantly better player (if a better player at all).
That along with the cap rising over the next few years should make moving Randle doable for NY. And if there’s some regression to the mean this year, Randle could have slightly positive trade value by February.
Katz is saying “might” want to trade Randle; which I guess is always true. But, by all accounts, the NYK aren’t looking to trade Randle. The Kentucky Mafia is still firmly in his corner. Even if Rose eventually breaks away from them and concludes he doesn’t want Randle, he won’t use assets to dump his salary (or anyone else’s) until they actually need the cap space. That means next off season at the earliest.
Lol @ Simm-Russ with those voluminous trade packages! Good work! Just a ques: I believe Beal and J.Isaacs(from Orl) would work out. Since both are unvax not sure Dolan/NY would go for that. But I’d take both in a trade in a ” NY minute”!