The Knicks believe they could have topped the offer that sent Donovan Mitchell to the Cavaliers, but they never got the chance to make a counterproposal, writes Stefan Bondy of The New York Daily News. Talks with the Jazz were on hold after word leaked late Monday night about an extension agreement with RJ Barrett. The Knicks were hoping to resume negotiations, but Utah reached a deal with Cleveland before that could happen.
Some members of the Knicks didn’t feel like they got “a fair shake” in the trade talks, and Bondy wonders whether the experience is related to the team’s high-profile appearance at a Jazz-Mavericks playoff game in April. New York, which was known to have interest in both Mitchell and Jalen Brunson, whom it ultimately signed, sent executives William Wesley and Allan Houston to the game, along with Julius Randle. They all sat at courtside, which reportedly upset officials from both Utah and Dallas.
The Knicks could have offered the Jazz more draft assets than they got from Cleveland, and they believe their early offers that centered on Barrett and first-round picks were better than the final deal. Bondy states that it’s unlikely that Utah executive Danny Ainge would sabotage a deal because of bitterness over the playoff stunt or a feud with CAA, but Bondy notes that Ainge only made one trade with the Knicks during his 18 years in the Celtics’ front office.
There’s more from New York:
- Gersson Rosas, who serves as senior basketball advisor with the Knicks, handled most of the negotiations with Utah, sources tell Gary Washburn of The Boston Globe. Rosas has a friendly relationship with Jazz general manager Justin Zanik, so they did most of the talking instead of Ainge and Knicks president Leon Rose, according to Washburn’s sources. Although Rosas didn’t complete the deal, the report shows that he has assumed more than just an advisory role with the franchise.
- The Knicks’ decision to give Barrett an extension was in reaction to the failed talks with the Jazz, per Marc Berman of The New York Post. A league source tells Berman that under normal circumstances, the team would have preferred to watch Barrett go through training camp before discussing the extension or possibly even wait until he hit restricted free agency next summer. The Knicks drafted Barrett before Rose and Wesley joined the organization. “They didn’t want to pay RJ now, they like RJ, but he’s not one of their guys,’’ Berman’s source said. “The preference was to trade him in a Donovan deal. … If they got Donovan without Barrett in the deal, they weren’t going to pay RJ now.’’
- New York’s priority in trade talks was keeping Quentin Grimes, states David Aldridge of The Athletic. Aldridge recommends that the Knicks should dip into their stockpile of draft assets to try to get Myles Turner and Buddy Hield from the Pacers.
The Knicks completely botched the trade discussions. Article sounds as if they were more than willing to pay what Utah was asking, but didn’t think they were going to “have” to do it, so they played “hardball” …. Amateur Hour in the Front Office
Exactly. The Cavs didn’t mess around. The Jazz clearly prefer to deal with those teams. Dealing with the Knicks is like dealing with that ex-girlfriend who had too much emotional baggage and won’t let go but loves to toy with you with teases of being sane. Should we get back together? No, she crazy. Should we get back together? No, she’s too needy. Etc… =)
Now Mitchell is gonna waste his career in Cleveland.
If Rosas has a great friendship with Jazz GM, then Jazz GM did not want to give Knicks a chance
Conflict?
Rosas is the problem of Knicks?
I do think Barrett has more 2 way upside than Sexton, but $78 million is a lot easier on the pocketbook than $120 million.
There’s a pretty sizable gap between Barrett and Sexton. Sexton at best is a modern day Lou Williams.
Lou Williams routinely put up a FG% around 40% while Sexton has hit 47% in his last two full seasons. Give the kid some more credit.
Sweet Lou shoots 3’s whereas Sexton won’t take open shots. That’s where the line is drawn.
The Knicks had Rosas (An advisor) negotiating the Mitchell trade with somebody other than Danny Ainge??? What is Leon Rose being paid to do??? I thought these guys had all these “connections” to get things done????
The Knicks were “surprised” when Ainge didn’t allow them to counter with another offer. Your “advisor” wasn’t talking to him anyway. The man went out and got the deal done himself!
How can Knick fans have any confidence in this Front Office????? What exactly has World Wide Wes done????
They’re saying Rosas was talking to Zanik, not Ainge. Ainge lets Zanik handle the day to day stuff. He’s said he’s there to steer the ship. You can see Ainge’s influence, for sure, but it makes sense to let Zanik talk to people. He’s a chill dude. Likely puts other GM’s at ease.
Jazz GMs are 100 times smarter than Knicks GMs.
Knicks are still Knicks.
Last summer and this summer
Both Lakers and Knicks get my grade
F, F, F
F, F, F
And now both teams can chat Westbrook contract
Chat, chat, chat
Westbrook, Westbrook, Westbrook
Where you at the meetings lol. Let’s believe everything they write. We are better off like this. If you need writers to tell what to think about balling. Then may e listen to Aldridge.
“He recommends that the Knicks should use their stockpile of draft assets to try to get Myles Turner and Buddy”.
In the end we have more options available. Why is it Knicks must do things at your weak minded time tables. Get original ideas.
It’s funny how it seems like non-Knick fans are more upset at this lack of a deal than Knick fans.
No one defending NYK here is claiming the FO is perfect, far from. But I’m also not going to cry a river because they didn’t outbid an offer for Mitchell that included 3 unprotected picks, multiple young players, and swaps.
What is more concerning is the possibility that there’s internal jostling within the FO.
I think is clear. Danny wanted more from Knicks. And he’d rather Donovan not go to NY. He got a good deal. I’ll give him that. I’m glad we didn’t let the pressure make us overpay. We still got moves to make.
I agree lol non-NYK fans seem more upset.
The Knicks missed out on a top 18-24 nba player, why on earth was an advisor conducting negotiations? And why were they so focused on the move after Mitchell? heard a lot of talk about the second trade but that means you have to make the first happen, the next dusgruntled star isn’t gonna be cheaper, it’ll be the exact same position or even more expensive If I were a knicks fan I would be livid, not because the Knicks missed donovan but because they were gassed up to think it was a sure thing and insane reasons prevented it
They definitely come across as not appreciative. I also think Donovan is going to be much happier with that Cavs roster. The Knicks players need to get rid of that depressed feeling first. Nobody else can make you happy. You have to find that within. Get them some group therapy or something.
Happy ?????? OK
It’s the fans like Al that’s the problem
Yeah that must be it ……
I know more about the Knicks than the FO. And that’s cause I know ball. It’s been two yrs for this FO. And they backed out on getting fleeced by Danny. Big Freakin deal. Plenty of options will come up. Unfortunately non fans don’t get. The biggest issue we got is Randle. So I would be focused on that.
The knicks lineup should be:
Mitchell
Obi
Grimes
Rj
Brunson
Backups:
Sims and Eckstein
Get rid of Randle
Quickley
Rose
Reddish
Fournier needs to be traded as well but we can use his three point shooting from the bench.
I guarantee a 45 win season!
People are making more out of who was “conducting” negotiations than necessary. If Rosas had the better relationship with Ainge than it would make sense to have him as the point man.
That doesn’t mean he was operating independently of the rest of FO. In any business negotiation you want the person with the best relationship with the counterparty to do the talking.
It’s over. Deal done. Move on.
Lotta tough lines in from the crowd for a sports writer who “wondered” something out loud onto a page as silly as courtside seats months prior then acknowledges DA would never be so foolish in the next paragraph to factor that in …..But I guess mission accomplished for Mr Bondy
It’s easy to accomplish that mission when the target audience knows nothing about deal negotiations, and will believe virtually anything they’re told.
NY writers will get 3 months worth of columns out of this, but the bottom line is nothing unusual happened here. NYK made their final offer(s) prior to moving forward with Barrett, they were rejected and the NYK moved on. That’s it. Nobody expected re-engagement unless things changed on UTH’s end (there wasn’t going to be any upward revision of the NYK offer(s)). They were surprised that DA preferred CLE’s offer, but that was just a btw.
Agreed, Rose has shown nothing but being strictly methodical, maybe too a small fault
Ainge as well on the flip side
Find it unfathomable anything snuck up on anybody here with the parties involved
Agree w/ both of you here.
“Some members of the Knicks” could be the waterboys and entry level data analysts, who are probably the only people still willing to talk to Bondy at this point.
Knicks not budging
Knicks gave Utah a deadline
knicks pulled their offer.
Knicks glad they didn’t get him anyways.
Knicks didn’t want to overpay.
Knicks feel cheated in failed trade..for reasons.
Of course they did.
Are there adults who run the knicks?
Nope. As long as Dolan lets Lil’ Leon run the show the team is doomed.
I think the Knicks problems are far more rooted in Dolan than Rose.
Not sure the Knicks are doomed. They’re on the playoffs edge with a hoard of draft picks. Sure, Fournier was a horrible signing and I’m questioning the Brunson deal as well, but the draft picks that have been made have been pretty good with the exception of Toppin over Haliburton (I like Toppin, but Haliburton would’ve put them on the map).
padam, yes on Haliburton versus Toppin, but it’s funny how Haliburton slipped in the draft after being so highly rated before it. People were wondering what was going on?
I remember Haliburton being a polarizing prospect due to his style and limitations. Some scouts and fans didn’t believe his all-around efficient glue game would translate to the pros because of his slight build, wonky shot motion and relative lack of athleticism (and honestly that is true for some great college players). That draft was pretty much wide open from the mid lottery to mid first round, and remember Toppin was a bit of slide to 8 to begin with.
I recall celebrating when it became the Knicks turn with Haliburton on the table. We need a PG. Check. Kid can play both sides of the court. Check. Would be a great compliment to RJ in the backcourt and a high ceiling to become an All-Star. Check. Knicks select (as the backup to Randle) Obi Toppin.
My jaw dropped.
I don’t place much weight on reported deals. Or supposed deals. It’s all hearsay.
Either way I’m ok with the deal falling through. In a vacuum I like DM bit paired with Brunson not so much. Too small and bad defensively.
I don’t think Mitchell will be as bad on D going forward, he was a plus defender coming out of college and defended well for the 1st couple seasons when Rubio ran the offense. He’s very quick and while he’s only 6’1″ but he’s got a 6’10” wingspan. He doesn’t have to be the sole focus of the offense now as Garland is more than capable.
I’ve followed Donovan since he entered the NBA. Donovan has stamina issues. He also has some leg issues. The last few years, he has tried to conserve energy. When he first entered the league, he would have 2-3 explosive dunks per game. The last few seasons, he would only dunk maybe once a month. He also conserved energy by slacking on defense. He would often let the offensively player past him – thinking that Rudy Gobert in the middle would “save” him. And his defensive stats dropped drastically because of that. If he picks things up on defense and expends more energy there, you will likely notice a drop-off offensively. So, we’ll see how he does in Cleveland.
Thats an upscope write right there folks. I will elaborate and add the east is much tougher and bigger than the west and is likely to squeeze DM in ways he has not been.
It should be interesting to see how they mesh in the backcourt. Garland is a talent, however when Sexton was healthy, Garland wasn’t as effective due to Sexton’s need for the ball. Mitchell is no different. Curious as to how this will impact him. On paper the Cavs look great, but in the backcourt together – it could be a Westbrook/Harden or Westbrook/Beal type of issue in which both guesses need the ball.
Guards*
Agreed – great point that Garland really only came into his own when he was freed to run the show. Mitchell is going to require more touches than Sexton, and while CLE can stagger minutes to an extent, both guys are probably playing 30-35 mpg.
This is where Mitchell on the Knicks made some sense due to Brunson’s ability to play off the ball. The issue I had with acquiring Mitchell was defense – and the lack of it in the backcourt.
The Jazz should have never parted ways with Ricky.
They went as far as they could with Helter Skelter Ricky. They needed an improvement and they thought Mike Conley’s past all star caliber game would continue with the Jazz.
Come on. The Knicks and Jazz have been “negotiating” for two months. To say the Knicks never had a chance to counteroffer is ridiculous. After months of negotiations going nowhere, the Knicks KNEW the Jazz were considering other offers. It was plastered all over the media for WEEKS. How long do you expect the Jazz to wait for another lame counteroffer from the Knicks?
I don’t believe so. I think the Knicks showed Ainge they wanted to force his hand and he responded accordingly, showing them he didn’t have to deal with them and still get a decent haul.
Get over it one and all.
NBA Executive Says Danny Ainge Wanted To “Rob” The Knicks: “He Knew How Much They Wanted Him.”
link to fadeawayworld.net
“I thought it was a very good trade for Cleveland to get him and I thought it was an unbelievable trade for Danny Ainge and what he got. Collin Sexton can score, Markkanen is a good player and you basically get 3 lottery picks, Sexton at a decent number, Markkanen at a decent number. At the end of the day if Danny wanted to move both of those guys, he could for more first-round picks.”
link to fadeawayworld.net
Knicks’ Attempt to Lowball Danny Ainge For Donovan Mitchell Was Admirable
link to thebiglead.com
Understand most things they write. Is like us talking about trades. The reality is what actually happens. And that is. He wanted more from the Knicks. He’d rather Mitchell don’t go to biggest market. And frankly Cavs made a great offer he can live with. He can still pick up more picks by moving Sexton and Lauri. So why play the blame game here. Most of you giving analysis on this. Are not even Knick or Cavs fans.
Wish DM the best. He’s a good guy and a great talent. Imo Cavs made a great move. I’m happy with waiting to make ours.
I wish that you understood basketball.
I have forgotten more ball than you will Learn in a lifetime. You think the world is over. There are better fits than DM. And Randle is a bigger issue than getting a star. But you’d have to know the Knicks and ball to understand that.
Al, it makes sense what you say that perhaps Danny didn’t want Mitchell to go to a large Market. If the guy explodes and becomes all world in New York everyone will lambaste Danny Ainge for trading him away. He can be all World in Cleveland and less people will notice. These GMS have egos too.
And bring back NY to prominence. He will never live that down. Plus lol he’s a true Celtic. And they will never help a Knick. I love DM but Im not giving up everything for him. We are not done yet. Takes courage to be optimistic with this team bro.
It’s delusional to be optimistic about the Knicks. You should watch the games and try to understand what’s going on. Learn the sport before you comment.
Haha that feeling when you loose something lol
Talk two months, give an ultimatum and subsequently jeopardize the deal by signing Barret’s extension (?!) and act a victim when the other side reaches an agreement with a third party. lol
Good for Donovan, good for Cleveland, good for the Jazz, good for the game and according to the fans good for the NYK :D
CLE will regret overpaying for him, it makes the trade for Gobert look cheap for MIN!
Yes, regardless of how good Donovan Mitchell could be, at the end of the day the Cavaliers gave up way too much, especially as far as draft capital. No way he stays in beautiful Cleveland when his contract is up. He’ll likely either be going to the Knicks or Nyets later on.
His contract is three more years isn’t it? In the NBA that’s an eternity. Everyone will be gone in 3 years lol. I think you have to swing for the fences once in awhile. If it works it works, if it doesn’t you try something else. Can’t be in perpetual future building.
With Garland and the couple big guys Cleveland thinks now is the time to get a game changing guard. I think they did well.
It may be an overpay, but trading for DM was the right move for the CAVS.
The CAVS filled up a serious need – shot creation. They legitimately get to be in the mix for that 2nd tier in the EAST, with the RAPTORS, BULLS and HAWKS.
Bulls and Cavs are now contenders imo. Both have players who are still getting better. Means the Team is also getting better. Hawks could be there also.
Nothing ever gets done in New York with the Knicks!” Smith opined. “Nothing! Nothing!
“It just never ends with the Knicks. It just never freaking ends.”
Steven A ……. The cult leader
This is half the fan base HERE. And about 90% of the HATERS . Clueless and just want to vent. Like they know something. The way to show your ineptitude about a subject. Is to constantly repeat what other clowns say. Just cause they say a lot. Or are the loudest. It doesn’t mean it’s true.
Reality is Knicks failure. Is cause of their owner. And the cut throat environment he creates with his FO. The new one blames the old one. And wants no part of what they tried to do. Instead of making the best of what they inherited. They spend the next yr or two tearing it down. Therefore killing their timeline for success. Most times it’s not even about balling but egos.
Now I’m not saying this FO is all that. But they have managed to keep Dolan away. That in itself is a huge accomplishment. Have drafted excellent. And have put themselves in a position to make a major trade. Only the rookies so called experts don’t get that. Much more fun to tear them down for clicks and readership. And of course for the Cult followers (Haters). In any other city. What Rose n company have done in two yrs. Would be lauded and applauded. Yet in NY it’s a constant what have you done lately.
TWO — 1 – 2. Two Freaking yrs. And we have picks and young players. Even a disgruntled all star to trade for an upgrade. Yet it’s a constant negative theme. That nons follow and haters love to follow. Yeah it’s been awhile. But what does an old regime have to to do with the new one. That’s what’s really going on here. Two years Steven A. Try the truth for once. And if you were really this invested. You would of ran Dolan out of town yrs ago. You whiner ……
So Whiners and Haters unite. Find out what happened the last two yrs. And cry about that. Keep it real and please keep it current.
Amen, long time knicks fans have never claimed SAS, he’s always been a corny hater. Sports media is now so much more about BS ‘drops’, personalities, hot takes and going viral than it is about realistic opinions. Aside from a handful of beat writers that are able to see the forest for the trees, any fans basing their reality on rumors and speculation in online articles or tv are fools.
A big key was, I think, both Utah and ainges past with Cleveland with the Korver trade, the 3 way with sac, and Sexton was the pick we got for Irving. There’s a lot of factors, including Utah figuring it’d be easier to flip this haul for more assets as opposed to whatever NY was eventually offering. If it’s true both mavs and jazz members were upset about that showing then you have a perfect storm, particularly with a market like Cleveland, who knows the cap space and picks they were sending out were likely not going to be as impactful as what Mitchell can bring.
Let’s be honest even though I believe Danny Ainge was trying to rob the NY Knicks without a gun I’m losing faith in Leon Rose closing deals for our beloved NY Knicks. I even heard Mitchell was a CAA client and the NY Knicks CAA Mafia leader Rose couldn’t even close the deal. And he didn’t want to include Grimes in the deal he better be in the starting lineup opening night because our delusional coach thibs will want Fournier starting because he is a vet. And did you Knick fans hear that The great Jerry West told Knick fromt office people Grimes is going be a star . I believe Grimes is going be a Klay Thompson or Devin Booker type player myself.