July 7: The trade is official, both teams announced. The second-rounder heading to Atlanta is conditional. It will be Memphis’ 2026 pick and will only convey if it lands between 31 and 42.
June 26: The Hawks are trading forward John Collins to the Jazz in exchange for forward Rudy Gay and a second-round pick, according to ESPN’s Adrian Wojnarowski.
Gay had a $6.48MM player option for 2023/24 that he exercised as part of the deal, his agent Sam Permut of Roc Nation Sports tells Wojnarowski (via Twitter).
Collins had been in trade rumors for multiple seasons, and now he’s finally on the move. Utah will be acquiring Collins using cap room, so the deal can’t be officially completed until July 6.
It’s essentially a salary-dump move to dip under the luxury tax line for Atlanta, much like the Kevin Huerter trade last offseason (the Hawks did get a protected first-rounder for Huerter, but it was mostly to avoid the luxury tax). Collins is owed $78MM over the next three seasons, including a $26.58MM player option in ’25/26.
In addition to significant financial flexibility, the Hawks will also generate a $25.34MM trade exception — equivalent to Collins’ salary for ’23/24 — as part of the deal, Wojnarowski reports. That will be the league’s new largest trade exception, surpassing the $18.1MM TPE the Nets created as part of the Kevin Durant deal in February.
Bobby Marks of ESPN clarifies (via Twitter) that the Collins TPE will be created by Atlanta absorbing Gay’s salary into an existing trade exception, worth $6.29MM. As Anil Gogna of Thread Sports Management tweets, the new CBA has a $250K allowance for TPEs (as opposed to $100K in the old CBA), which is enough to accommodate Gay’s deal.
It’s an interesting buy-low acquisition for the Jazz, who already have Lauri Markkanen, Walker Kessler, Kelly Olynyk and first-round pick Taylor Hendricks in their frontcourt.
Collins had a down season in ’22/23, averaging 13.1 PPG and 6.5 RPG on .508/.292/.803 shooting in 71 games (30.0 MPG). Still, he’s only 25 years old and holds career averages of 15.8 PPG and 8.0 RPG on .551/.356/.783 shooting across 364 games (29.2 MPG). The Jazz will be hoping he can rebuild his value under head coach Will Hardy.
According to Wojnarowski, the two teams have discussed “numerous iterations” of a Collins trade for “over a year,” but Atlanta finally decided to move on due to a salary-cap crunch. The Hawks are expected to remain active in trade conversations and GM Landry Fields has ownership’s permission to go above the tax threshold if it improves the roster, says Woj.
Atlanta’s newfound financial flexibility could be used to negotiate long-term extensions for Dejounte Murray, Onyeka Okongwu and Saddiq Bey, whom Wojnarowski refers to as “core players.”
Gay was a very good player for a long time, but age and injuries seemed to catch up with him last season. He posted career lows in points (5.2), rebounds (2.9) and minutes (14.6) per game in 56 appearances. He’s about to enter his 18th season and will turn 37 in August.
Oof this is a sad day in the A :(… Bright side is we get a huge trade exception & perhaps even more importantly we open up a lot of pt for this guy… link to m.youtube.com
Great deal for Hawks!
Tax savings
Great deal for both sides. The fans keep analyzing this under old cba but the new cba is changing things. Couldn’t believe Kp went to boston for cheap. We will see teams moving players for less then expected.
Next will be ayton. I just don’t believe the suns! Going into the super tax is deadly. It’s really a hard cap. Teams do have a little time to adjust. Some keep doing deals before new cba starts in July.
New cba hasn’t even printed! We would like to read the rules but we all know that’s why salary dumps are happening. Silver wanted parity and now he own he is getting parity along with chaos.
In the short term all the new super apron does is remove the MLE as an option. Its the long term punishments that have more teeth, but you can duck those by going out of the tax in a few years.
Wow, has to be more than that?
Hawks likely avoid multiple years of tax for a roster that doesn’t escape the first round.
Which way? In terms of talent, of course it’s John Collins, but you usually don’t give up a pick when you’re taking on a huge salary. The issue though is that you’d think the Hawks would’ve gotten more from a contender. Again, most contenders couldn’t easily take on Collins’ salary.
Wow! Not what I was expecting. I knew Collins didn’t have much value with nearly 80 mil left on his deal (including the player option, but I can’t see him not taking that at this point), but I didn’t think it would be that bad. I was expecting either a solid roleplayer or a protected first, tbh. Are the Jazz going to play both him and Markkanen, or is this a setup to another move?
As for the Hawks, this looks like a pure salary dump, as they’re projected for over 145 million even without Collins on the books next season. Unless there’s some part of the return not reported yet.
Lauri is best as a 3. He played his best ball in the league as a 3, both in Cleveland & last yr in Utah before JVando was traded to LA
Don’t really agree, Lauri’s breakout last year came as a primary PF in terms of role. Maybe on paper he was a 3, but in terms of his shot selection and positioning on defense, he looked more like a stretch 4 who can finish, which is his exact role. According to positional ratings on BBRef, he only played SF about 20% of the time, with PF or C the rest. Vando’s data backs that too.
And that makes sense especially on defense, Lauri is best as a paint and midrange defender who can switch onto perimeter players if he has to; he’s not great at guarding guards away from the paint.
For the vast majority of the season before the trade deadline Olynyk & Vando started alongside Lauri in the Jazz frontcourt. Lauri was clearly the 3. After the deadline Kessler took Vando’s spot as a starter. In Cleveland Mobley & JAllen were the starting frontcourt. These are by far the best seasons of his career. Check the tape lol it’s not just on paper, he was a 3 the past few seasons & that’s obv gonna continue.
I did watch the tape; as a Cavs fan I saw all the stuff he was doing as a SF, and when I followed Jazz games because they were a fun team to watch, he did all the stuff I already talked about. He’s a 4 in terms of what he actually does on the court. Maybe you can make an argument that he can play the 3 alongside Collins, but that’s not what he did last year, his best year as a pro.
This is a perfect example of what I be talking about smh. Like bro how can u call yourself a Cavs fan on here & not know about Lauri playing the 3 for them the yr he was there? Just like this Reno guy is saying, so many people thought he’d be a liability on d at 3 & Cleveland ended up having a great defense. I guess you missed it but Utah had him at the same spot. Do you think it was Kelly Olynyk playing the 3 for them?
No, it was Vanderbilt, Sankara. Olynyk and Kessler Edwards split time at the 5, and Markkanen slid to the 3 occasionally when the Jazz went big. Like I said when I mentioned his lineup data *backing up Lauri being a PF*. Vando’s lineup data has him at SF over 50% of the time in Utah. The fact that you didn’t understand that isn’t remotely my problem.
And “how do [I] not know” about Markkanen being a SF in Cleveland? You assume that I didn’t know because I didn’t mention it while talking about LAST YEAR, as in the season that just finished? The season where he was in Utah, not Cleveland? Learn to read if you’re going to come at me with bs takes. That was so lazy it made me yawn.
Lauri is one of my favorite players. I’ve followed him since Arizona. When we got him from Chicago for Nance and a second, I was so happy and thought he was a steal, and seeing us trade him as part of the package for Mitchell made me really unhappy with the trade. I think I know more about him than a guy who has never followed a team where he played. Try some other time.
So you say Jarred Vanderbilt was the 3 bc basketball reference told u so? Prime example of what I be talking about smh… Remember all this started bc you weren’t sure if he could play with John. You don’t have to admit it to me but if you can just admit to yourself that was wrong & that Lauri would be great playing alongside a Collins/Kessler frontcourt same as he was alongside Olynyk/Kessler, Olynyk/Vanderbilt & Mobley/Allen, then we can go ahead and move on
Taking stuff out of context and trying to be clever for clout while ignoring your own mistakes and intentional misunderstandings? Exactly what *I’m* talking about, Sankara. Go bother someone who gives a crap about your opinion. I don’t think you understand anything you’re talking about, so I’m not going to waste any more time.
I don’t think you understand anything you *be* talking about
Prime example of what I *AM* talking about
Even a freakin Slapnuts who’s been hit over the head repeatedly with guitars knows “a lil” grammar….. not that I do….. I’ve barely the adequate time for my freaks/peaks but nonetheless a big THANKS to Slapnuts everywhere because the NWO=4L, lol I bet JJ be..or rather IS proud! Holla if Ya Hear Me!
Lauri is getting cooked on D if he is a 3
Finally, finally.. John Collins is traded!
Although, Eon, I’m with you. Danny Ainge is in on this, so there is likely another trade coming. Otherwise they are only swapping unwanted players. I say Collins goes elsewhere, and Rudy Gay is waived.
Makes sense to me. What team does Collins end up with in your opinion?
Rudy Gay is not waived. They keep him to trade for a next asset or salary dump him. But they don’t waive Gay themselves.
Lauri’s position and game are 4. Didn’t even matter that the Jazz finished the season running 2 centers and two SGs around him he still plays the 4. It didn’t matter before the trade with Vanderbilt he still played the 4 which is why V wasn’t doing as well and got traded. If Lauri was a 3 he’d still be in Cleveland. Fate (log jams at the 4) brought him to Utah and they are the first team to give him full recognition as a 4 and the offence ran like he was a 4. He surprised me and I’m happy for his success. As a 4!
lol this guy gets it
As a Jazz fan, Lauri didn’t play the 3 for Utah until the end of last season. He played the majority of the year at the 4. Facts.
Ouch, there will be more info on this return for Atlanta other than a salary dump I hope.
If so, feels like a move to set-up another move
More like just setting up for next year when Okongwu, Murray, and Bey will all be free agents/begin new extensions
This takes them out of the luxury tax too
My mind immediately started thinking about the Murray rumors.
Murray is a good chip worth more than his salary, I bet Atlanta finds a way to fill some needs in the next month…
Murray is going to have plenty of suitors.
What needs do you see the Hawks needing to fill?
Why are you picking a fight?
I am not afraid of giving my analogy, or opinion, but you don’t have a history of conversation, just you telling everybody how wrong it is of them to be surprised by Collins being traded for so very little.
Not interested if trolling was your intent. I didn’t comment anything remotely controversial, so there is no reason for your B.S.
Just to recap, you say I have a history of, “telling everybody how wrong it is of them to be surprised by Collins being traded for so very little.”?… and that’s why you won’t answer my simple question?
No. You have a history of not engaging in conversation.
It was a rhetorical question was it not?
Lol y’all are a trip I swear
You asked a rhetorical question, and got an appropriate response…
That’s a trip?
…this comment thread is literally just the imposter Spiderman meme. It’s almost comical.
rhetorical question = question that you don’t have an answer for
I’m not here to complete an exercise for you, or fall into your B.S. where you know all, and everything I didn’t say you comment as ammo in some pre-determined narrative of yours.
But “WE are all a trip on here”
What kind of psychosis do you suffer from?
If the fanatics on here are too low brow then why are you doing this? Why keep coming back? I could have spent my time better, what is your purpose?
Rhetorical question – a question asked in order to create a dramatic effect or to make a point rather than to get an answer.
Just to clear things up…lol
The Nets really couldn’t match that offer? I’d rather have Collins over Cam Johnson for that type of monet. We have no power foward right now. I don’t want Royce O’Neale or Dorian Finney-Smith on this team right now, both can’t make a shot. Collins is going to do really well in Utah. Once again, Danny Ainge is a basketball genius
Jees Collins isn’t that negative of a contract
I’m surprised the Hawks got a 2nd. With Collins’ contract and performance since he signed his contract I honestly thought the Hawks would have to add a pick to get off his contract. Good for Collins though, maybe a fresh start with a new team will help rejuvenate his career.
I agree. It seems like a good deal for the Hawks.
His thumb got mashed and he hasnt shot the 3 the same since. If his shot comes back he is a positive value. If it doesnt he is overpaid.
I dont get these teams, man…I really dont get it
I dont get how so many times, certain organizations put together a roster, and then add the pieces they need, and then randomly get rid of something important for no real reason, and then they trade 2 or 3 pieces for the piece they let go…
I just dont get some of these coaches for these organizations that clearly put a roster together with things in mind, only for them to literally never play that way.
The Huerter trade was definitely worse, but this is really questionable, from their current roster make up
I also wonder what this means for Utah, with all their guards and bugs, although I havent looked at their roster, so maybe certain guys are FAs
I mostly just dont understand why Atlanta feels the need to constantly take 2 steps forward and 3 steps back, but they arent alone in that for a long time, and a couple of the teams that did that managed to eventually win. I’m sure these organizations also have a lot more info on what else is going on around the league that secretly influences certain things, b/c the first couple of levels make it seem very shortsighted
Again, not necessarily singling them put, but they have been culprits of this the last couple of years. Also, I’m sure they’ll make a move or 2 in FA that will then put them back in some kind of position, so I’m not saying all this to suggest they’ll be bad. Just saying that at first couple of reactions, I feel almost as I did after they gave away Huerter. I guess Collins hasnt been much of the spacer he was previously the last couple of years, but I still think he can give you that at the 4/5, and part of his shooting issues were due to people around him
Hawks aren’t taking any steps back lol. I agree with you that you don’t get it but apparently you haven’t considered the possibility that maybe this is your fault. It’s clear that most of y’all just don’t watch the Hawks much. Knowing John’s injury history & knowing about Jalen Johnson would definitely help y’all understand this move much better
But I would also use Jalen Johnson…
Your unbelievable condescension, even after what you’ve seen from people here, like myself, is almost impressive at this point.
It’s also clear you didnt read the comment
I said that I’m not suggesting they’ll be bad, and maybe they add a floor spacing big and replace him, and all of this is meaningless, but dont try to tell ME that I dont know what I’m talking about, especially when you are constantly moving goal posts and making outrageous claims about certain players not going anywhere, only for you to then say stuff like this when they are moved…
Also, if you think it was such a great deal, explain why Atlanta finished 7th after the play in, instead of 3rd or 4th, after getting rid of Huerter for nothing
You turn everything into some sort of competition, when this is supposed to be about legitimate discourse. Even if you were right, what does that get you? Congratulations for being better than people on a message board on the internet
You were far more condescending. You think that because you don’t understand why teams make certain moves that the team is wrong. Use some perspective. At least consider the fact that you aren’t an expert on this stuff bc I promise y’all are not. Tbh it frustrates me that there’s seemingly nobody in these comments that really is able to have a real conversation about this extremely interesting NBA move. The vast majority of y’all are basically anti-athlete. Nobody in here, including yourself, even mentioned Jalen Johnson. It’s obv from the things y’all say that you don’t know much about John Collins except for whats on basketball ref. You sorta seem better than most but tbh that’s not saying much. If u feel like I go hard on y’all it’s bc I don’t respect y’all as basketball fans just being honest. It’s extremely few & far far bw as far as me finding what I would call stimulating hoop talk on this site
You don’t have respect for anybody. You don’t go hard, you’re a narcissist, and I have never seen you give anyone the benefit of the doubt before you insult them with some parochial nothing such as Jalen Johnson.
Your elite knowledge base is only beneficial to you. You are a homer for the most part, and sometimes make a relevant point pertaining to the Hawks situation.
But its rare…
Thanks for the window into your diluted world of false self-confidence. I assumed, but thanks for the confirmation.
This is coming from me, and I get plenty of static on here for having orignial opinions, but you are doing something else…
Aye man just bc I don’t respect you that doesn’t mean I don’t respect anybody. Lol who’s being narcissistic now
I don’t respect you either which is why I usually let you babble about like an untrained, pubescent, teenager, and never repond to any of your comments.
You have an agenda, and that isn’t exchanging basketball information.
I replied to your comment to formerlyz because you are a turd today, and sometimes I feel like opening the window, and giving the others in the room some relief
…you know what…there is no need for anyone to respond to this anymore, beyond this statement right here
I’m can do that, formerlyz.
It’s hard to take a step back from middle to back end of the league
Right, this is a move about mainly money, and in the bright side they get to see what they have in Jalen Johnson..
It’s a win/win for the Hawks, but if you looked at the returns they expected only just two seasons ago it is easy to see how alot of people are confused.
Kings missed big here. Tremendous amount of upside for how little you had to give up. Money is great but it could be a whole lot worse. Hope Monte has a trick up his sleeve
Kings already have Keegan Murray ad their starting PF. Doesn’t make sense for kings to take on that much salary for a bench guy. It’d probably clog up extensions for a couple years if I had to guess.
Murray should be playing SF. Murray is tiny next no defense C in Sabonis. They will be looking at PF this off-season
Murray does not have the rebounding you’d want from a 4. Domas has taken him under his wing so that might develop but going into this season he is much better suited to play the 3 with an upgrade in the offseason taking over the 4. Depends now on how they’ll look to upgrade the roster.
Farewell to a Hawks legend, a personal fave & 1 the best & most exciting players to ever wear a Hawks jersey. Miss you already JC… link to m.youtube.com
Hawks are clueless
The new tax rules will change a lot of teams in the next couple seasons. Expiring contracts are coming back as good assets. Nice to see some changes in the league, spread good players across the 30 teams
Utah has gotten 2 mega fleeces back to back offseasons. Got a bounty of picks for a team cancer and picked up an even better player the next season for peanuts.
That “even better ” player is paid $25 million a season to score 13.1 ppg 6.5 rpg while shooting .508 from the field and .292 from deep. Collins has gotten progressively worse every season since the PED suspension.
It’s still better than fighting with teammates, and he didn’t cost 6 years of draft picks. Plus 50 from the field is fine just stop shooting 3s
25 salary cost a veteran bench piece and a 2nd vs 41 6 1sts and a better player they could’ve drafted in walker Kessler and even more. The gobert trade is as bad as the Paul pierce and kg to the nets trade and possibly even worse.
He was like the fourth option in Atlanta and had problems with Trae which seems to be common.
I like it fir Atl , they gotta lotta talent waiting in the wings to get paid. Don’t look at this as losing Jc look at it as being able to keep sone of Jj Oo and Murray moving forward
Haha hoho juju hihihihi hahaha hahaha
Diuuhhhh. Doooooohhhhh gahahawuha
This is hilarious …. Hawks are trying to one up Wizards.
I am so very happy right now. Hawks should never have re-signed Collins for that amount. This whole concept of ‘who else were they going to spend it on’ that I heard back at the time crippled them cap wise.
Do not let the quote about shooting percentage fool you, Collins is a pick and roll dunk guy. He has ZERO ability to get his own shots as he does not have lateral quickness. That is what also makes him below average on the defensive end, even though he does actually put in the effort to play defense (cough cough .. Trae).
Paying that much money for a guy who is easily replaced either internally (Capella can screen and dunk very well, while rebounding and playing decent defense) or externally for a fraction of the cost was a big mistake. If they had been intelligent about Collins years ago, they would have traded him before the extension when his value might have brought back a couple of firsts. The problem is, when teams draft someone who turns out to be mildly successful, they tend to overvalue them rather than viewing them realistically. Collins hit his ceiling early and they should have traded him then.
I definitely agreed with a lot of this, especially earlier on, but I thought he improved defensively. I just think spacing wise it was an issue, and earlier on, he was a guy that had the ball in his hands more than a guy that could move the ball quickly in the offense as a connector. I think him falling off with his shooting is also significant b/c of the guys that need that space on the floor, and if he isnt making that shot, it is tough to justify using him at either spot, for different reasons
I still think moving Capela made more sense
I understand the want to shred Salary but shesssh your basically getting nothing in return for Collins who is a terrible player.
I think DeAndre Hunter will move to the 4 and Saqid will be the starting 3. 2 good 3 and D forwards. Behind them you have AJ Griffin and Jalen Johnson. So from a roster perspective it’s fine I suppose.
I just though John would hold a little more value or you’d want to get something useable back for him. Atleast John will be happy he’s wanted to go to Utah for a while now.
How is he terrible?
similar to dubs ridding themselves of poole.
Wow, Collins just became a salary dump. This offseason has been strange so far.
I think some of these moves have made sense. Dumping Collins for practically nothing but that horrific contract alone was great. Washington moving Beal’s contract was great, though a little extra back may have been nice. KP was gone anyway, so Washington cleared a ton of cap room. Isn’t like they were going to contend or win with the roster they had.
Good, and LONG overdue, trade by ATL. Anyone who doesn’t understand that doesn’t understand either or both of the NBA personnel system (the new CBA or any of the 4 prior CBAs) and/or ATL’s projected payroll going forward prior to the deal. The fact that the system has parameters that can be malleable doesn’t mean the system is optional.
This thread would be just fine if this was the only post
Perfect analysis
DXC is the best.
Just trade Hunter to Indiana. SMH
Some interesting cap numbers here for the NBA on a whole after the Bertans and Collins trades eating up some (pretty rare) open cap space –
Roughly near 300 mill in open this year (between 8 teams)
ouston Rockets: ~$60 million
San Antonio Spurs: ~$40-48 million
Utah Jazz: ~$30-45 million
Oklahoma City Thunder: $28-35 million
Charlotte Hornets: ~$27-37 million
Detroit Pistons: ~$27-30 million
Indiana Pacers: $27 million
Orlando Magic: ~$20-58 million
34 mill or OVER 10% just got eaten up Collins and Bertans ! Theres gonna be some bargain bin shopping and some players will be left in the dust when the exception money clears up…don’t fret if your home team plays it close to the vest day 1, this is a very complicated free agency, one where the best deals may be struck on day 3 (rare) instead of right out the gates
This is the new reality in the NBA.
Teams, especially those non-contending ones (e.g HAWKS), will clean-house just to avoid hitting that 2nd tax apron.
The nice thing about Collins is that he’s fast enough to guard multiple positions. The Jazz did help Vando greatly improve his 3-ball. No reason they can’t do the same for Collins, who already has a serviceable shot.
As for Markkanen, he played the 3 on offense. Vando was a 5. Kessler took over for him after the trade. Kessler was a bench player before the trade. Olynyk played the 4 and 5. Markkanen on defense usually guarded their 4 or 5, before the trade. 4 or 3 after the trade.
In other words, Coach Hardy and the front office, don’t label their specific positions. For example, they call Keyonte a guard. That would mean Collins is a forward. They have used Markkanen at the 5 in small doses, but I would think their lineup would be:
Sexton
Clarkson
Markkanen/Collins
Collins/Markkanen
Kessler
Their position will likely change depending on matchups and injuries.
Bench:
Olynyk
Ochai
THT
Dunn
Hendricks
George
Sensabaugh
Jones
Luka Samanic
Vernon Carey Jr.
Fonntechio
Juzang
2-way
Hauser
The Jazz are going to have to waive or trade some more players by the time the season starts. I could still see several of these players traded, not guaranteed, converted to a 2-way, or waived by the start of the season.
Good post. Hey do you think they keep Clarkson or he walks? I’m leaning toward Jordan leaving.
I would’ve thought they’d let him go or trade him. However, after seeing the kinds of players they’ve been interested in, like Porzingis and now the trade for Collins, I’m leaning toward them resigning him.
There is a scenario where the Jazz see Clarkson as too old to fit their retool/rebuild, or he wants more money than the Jazz want to pay, or if the Jazz have another trade lined up, then I could see them doing a sign-and-trade with Clarkson apart of that.
Regardless, it’s been hard to predict what the Jazz will do with Ainge as Pres. lol
Appreciate your insight on the Jazz roster. What’s your sense of Juzang making the roster and getting time this year? Curious as he grew up as my neighbor and went to same grade school as my kids so I’m rooting for him. Thanks!
He definitely got better towards the end of the year. Not sure if there’s a roster spot available after keeping all their draft picks this year. His 2-way was converted a contract at the end of the season. Not sure if they can convert it back or not. I know they can be on a 2-way for up to 3 years.
He’ll likely be on the Summer League roster at least. We’ll see how he does. Lots can happen before the start of the season.
Collins thumb got jacked a season and a half ago and his shots been trash since. If it eventually gets right he may return to the 37% he was before. Bad thumb injuries can permanently ruin touch too though.
Danny has something up his sleeve olynyk contract only guaranteed for 3mil until june 28th just saying kelly is pretty redundant (he would look awful good back in boston)also would grant williams be a good fit in atlanta?
Olynyk is another guy that I could see them trading. The argument is that the Jazz want to retool with young vets, which would apply here. Both Clarkson and Olynyk are 30+. If the Jazz could bring back a center with switchable defense then I could see them doing that. Grant Williams would be a nice 1-for-1 trade for Jazz and Boston.
If, however, the trade includes Clarkson, then the Jazz would likely need to make another trade for a young vet guard. Of course, that’s unless they view THT as that guy then no worries.
In the above scenario, Olynyk would then need to be moved for assets, at that point. Although, Ainge has always liked Olynyk. They could still keep him for another year or two.
Is that a reverse protection for a team that would be expected to make the playoffs that year? Unless Ja continues to self-destruct by making bad decisions, it’s unlikely that Memphis will miss the playoffs and/or play in the 9-10 play-in game on the road in 2026.
Guess so. Don’t see protections on second round picks very often.
Glad it’s finalized. Maybe now they’ll do a press conference about it?