After winning two of their first three games to open the season, the Pistons have dropped 11 in a row. The 11th game of the losing streak was especially ugly, as the team surrendered a season-high 142 points in Toronto on Sunday and never held a lead in the 29-point defeat.
While head coach Monty Williams has said he’s encouraged by the progress his young team has made behind the scenes, point guard Cade Cunningham expressed displeasure with the Pistons’ effort level and said the club has to “be realistic” about its situation.
“It’s hard to just be like, ‘We’re good, we’re good,’ you know what I’m saying? Because we’re bad,” Cunningham said, per James L. Edwards III of The Athletic. “We have to address that. We have to address what we’re not good at. Address it with not only our words but on the court, in the huddles.”
Williams isn’t wrong that the Pistons have been a little better than their record suggests. Entering Sunday’s action, the team sat dead last in the NBA’s standings, but only had the league’s seventh-worst net rating (-4.8) despite dealing with a handful of injuries to key players, including Bojan Bogdanovic, who has yet to play this season.
That net rating took a hit in Sunday’s blowout loss, however, and Cunningham suggested the team’s compete level in Toronto was “unacceptable.”
“We’re the youngest team in the league, scrapping and clawing for everything,” Cunningham said. “That should be the last thing that needs to be asked of us or talked about; how hard we’re competing. That should be a given. When we wake up in the morning, we should be like, ‘We got to get to the court.’ (Williams) shouldn’t have to ask (about our competitive level). That’s something me and (Isaiah Stewart) are also trying to stay vocal about. Everyone has to come with it.”
As Edwards writes, Cunningham’s comments may be a good thing for the club. The former No. 1 overall pick is the face of the franchise and a leader in the locker room, so if anyone is going to step up and try to jump-start a turnaround, it should be him. According to Edwards, Cunningham and Stewart have helped keep the locker room connected, so there’s no “turmoil and friction” to worry about.
It won’t be easy for the Pistons to end their losing streak on Monday though — on the second end of a back-to-back set, they’ll host the defending-champion Nuggets.
Trade Wiseman and Hayes to Washington(Gafford and Shamet with a pick) or the Spurs(Bassey and Graham with a pick) Trade Bagley to Memphis(Luke Kennard and Jackson ll). Tank and get Holland next year. Move Thompson to SG and play Ivey as the sixth man, or draft Sarr and play him at PF.
Wiseman is a negative asset at this point. He’s just so raw still. It’s unbelievable that he’s still so unskilled even now. Cotton wool between his ears. Hayes has nothing to offer. Bagley has been solid, but he’s not worth the Grizzlies best shooter, plus more.
And the Pistons are tanking whether they want to or not. Their offense has no system other than “force Cade to do everything at all times”. Nobody is doing a good job of getting themselves open, which is why the team is dead last in terms of turnovers. Nobody is moving right. Monty needs to fix that before the defense.
Wiseman just needs minutes. He hasn’t gotten a chance since he entered the league. Just trade him to the Spurs or Washington for peanuts. He will just rot in Detroit like he did in GS, they don’t want him so trade him. Luke Kennard has been shooting horrible this season. If Wiseman was with the Spurs developing next to Wemby that would be good for him, Hayes too. Spurs are tanking so what can they lose, Devonte Graham and Bassey to Detroit. Bassey can get minutes when Duren is out.
I disagree on Wiseman. Dude looks lost even in the G-League. And his numbers there look really underwhelming for a pick of his caliber. There are 2-way guys and career g-leaguers who are better on both ends and it shows. He’s very slow to react to even the most obvious plays. And he won’t be getting more minutes on the Spurs. Maybe the Wizards, since they’re trying to tank every game and don’t have much Center depth. But the Pistons aren’t getting Gafford for him. Maybe for cash, straight-up. That’s about all his value is at the moment.
Hayes doesn’t have much talent. He’s a bench player at peak ability. He’s just not good with the ball in his hands and doesn’t improve without it. He can pass, and he’s an okay defender against smaller guards. But that’s the limit of his utility. No offense, no game. And he doesn’t have it.
Also, the Spurs don’t want another PG. They’re intentionally running Sochan there to A) improve his playmaking, B) sneakily tank, C) Give Tre Jones time to improve his jumper in a less important role, and D) force Wemby to figure things out early whether that’s shoot or pass, so he doesn’t end up like Embiid as a big who can do anything but struggled when double-teamed or put in an unfavorable matchup. Embiid looks to be figuring that out this year, with more passes and fewer bad turnovers. If Wemby gets a head-start on that, so much the better.
I’d rather Bassey end up with a team that would use him well as a backup big. The Pistons look more likely to shove him behind Bagley and forget about him.
Imagine how Wiseman feels though, had a horrible time in GS with Kerr playing head games, then get traded, looked decent last year to only lose his spot to Duren, now playing in the g league with bums. His confidence is probably gone. He would be good starting in Washington were he can make mistakes with Poole and Kuzma. Trade him for Shamet. All Detroit needs is a 19-22 SG and PF to start with Ivey and Stewart coming off the bench
I could see Wiseman improving, but that’s not my point. What I’m saying is that nobody is going to trade anything of value *for* him at the present time. He’s a negative asset. He could become more in time, but *right now*, he has no value other than vague upside that appears unreachable from the PoV of most Front Office execs. Even Shamet is more valuable than that because he can be a salary match in a trade. He’ll get dealt for cash or a second, or as part of a bigger trade and then cut. There aren’t many 1-for-1 deals of Wiseman that would actually be accepted by other teams, or the Pistons for that matter.
And I think the whole offensive system in Detroit needs a revamp. It’s not just that they have young players; even the sets being drawn up look half-a**ed at best. Imo, this isn’t going to be fixed with a few trades or a good draft pick. There’s simply too much going wrong.
Also the Spurs need Collier in the draft. All they need is an all star PG prospect. Move Sochan to SF (point forward) then find a defensive center next to Wemby.
Which is exactly why they’re stealth tanking now by playing Sochan at the 1. They ain’t getting Collier if they pick later than 3rd. They’re doing pretty much exactly as you said.
I always find it more fascinating when can’t miss prospects end up bad, like Wiseman.
It seems like there is little time spent re-examining how the evaluations were off.
Sports are meant to focus on the now or future.
If I’m a Front office, I would wanna know how the collective echo chamber has incorrect evaluations. So I could zig instead of zag.
I don’t know how can’t miss Wiseman was. Don’t forget this was the least scouted drafted during the covid debacle.
Detroit just needs a young SG (who can shoot like Hawkins) and young PF prospects. Ivey and Stewart can come off the bench
I don’t think any of those trades would work. Each doesn’t make sense for one of the sides.
They would work. It’s mostly to clear out Detroit’s glut then look at what they need(another young SG and PF)
Beef Stew is part of the problem
He offers so slow foot speed and such short arms that
Teams operate ABOVE THIS UNIT
Bagley zero rim protections
Duren not much better
Wiseman doesn’t know which basket is his
Or trade Hayes with a pick to Utah for Hendricks. Wiseman to Washington or the Spurs for whatever. Draft a SG or SF next years draft
@Luke. Why all the pistons trade configurations for bench players, when you state ultimate goal is to tank.
What they’ve got currently appears the perfect recipe already to tank.
Unless the pistons trade to get a developing player for the future, what is the point?
Edit
I think i see now, your point is getting the pistons players to other teams for their development, or another team’s benefit.
Yes it is for Wiseman to prosper and develop as a player ( because I still believe in him) I do believe Hendricks would be nice next to Duren though. I am glad you actually see exactly where I am coming from. Thank you
Why would Utah do this? Hendricks offers the Jazz more upside than Hayes ever would. If that pick you mention is a 2024 1st, sure, but Detroit would never offer their upcoming 1st so that’s a moot point.
Hendricks has played in one game and is sitting. Detroit would offer future picks(nothing crazy). It’s just a idea for Detroit to get a young shooting pf next to Duren but I do see what you are saying and don’t know if Utah would trade him already. Danny likes to wheel and deal though. Utah has a interesting team with a young PG, PF and C surrounding by solid vets.
I was really jealous Pistons got Cade, then I thought pairing him with Ivey would be the next superstar backcourt. But in all honesty neither have lived up so far.
Cade is just elevated stats on high usage and poor efficiency right now, while playing on a very poor team(if not injured) but I still have hope he’ll take that leap. And I have no idea what’s going on with Ivey, he’s only averaging like 20mins, clearly an issue.
Shocking as it sounds I would swerve and trade Cade while the hype is still there, for someone that can offer some form of winning ball. The league still rate him sky high and he could net some very good pieces back and try another direction. If he does live up, it’ll be like kings, trade Hali but picked up Sabonis who made them a contending playoff team. Yeah Haliburton is looking AllNBA but with Fox and Sabo they look the real deal.
Cade is the problem. He is a good player, but not a “franchise” player. He also is horribly inefficient offensively. He needs to play on the ball, but doesn’t make enough happen for that role. Doesn’t shoot well enough to play off the ball.
Monty Williams is doing the right thing. You got to find out who can and can’t play, and who can and can’t deal with adversary.
Thompson, Sasser and Duren that’s who you got right now. Trade Cade, who will still bring a haul, and add to that group. You cannot get it done with Cade as your franchise player. Impossible to build around. Ausar Thompson is now your guy.
I have said all offseason that the Pistons were the worst team in the NBA. You are paying Monty fat, build a team in the image he wants.
I completely agree, I wouldn’t say he was the problem though it’s a collective of bad fit and lack of progression. Just that’s he’s massively disappointing and that they should use his over hype value to net one or a couple players that can take that role or even just generally improve the team.
I am a big fan of Duren, Sasser and Thompson but I wouldn’t put the team’s future in their hands, I don’t see any being a franchise guy. Cade should net a lot more than his value, they have the chance to get out before it gets ugly, and they should. Again Cade may become his hype but it’s not worth the risk anymore. Ivey they’re stuck with until he gets some reps to improve his value, but I actually rate Ivey and think he’s being miss-managed by Williams.
They need Holland (at SF with Thompson going to SG) or Sarr(at PF)
It’s just another story out of the Tanking Chronicles, a publication that league seems intent on supporting …
Weaver has been a joke from the start. DET won 15 games last year. One of the worst teams in NBA history and that was in Year 3 of his regime. Unmitigated failure by any traditional measure. It’s interesting, though, because up until now 2k nation has done nothing but sing his praises. Why not, he’s playing their song, preparing the roster to lose, and mindlessly acquiring every underperforming young talent that becomes available. More suprising, the owner also bought in to their “bad is good” (and real bad is great) theories, and gave him an extension. So, perhaps, in a sense, he’s a success. Why would he change a thing?
TO BE CLEAR…
The approach of trying to draft in the top 5 every year is a STUPID approach.
ANYONE suggesting a team TANK is NOT looking a the data and results.
Detroit has 5 players drafted in the top 7 (4 in the top 5) , in the last 4 years of drafts.
…and they are once again headed for another top 5 draft pick…
They are not alone in thinking this works and FAILING year after year – drafting top 5 over and over again.
Good picks are better than top picks.
Top players are better than having a good pick (trading a good player for picks doesn’t work unless you are the team getting the good player.)
I agree with this in general; scouting and having an organizational plan is more important than final draft position each year.
There is no chemistry on this team. The Pistons came into the season with one half veterans and the other half new.
The vets are nowhere to be seen. They also have a coach that has never had to develop anything close to a young team.
The vets have to go in favor of developing better definition.
You have to be able to shoot better, it’s not really a luxury in todays Nba more of a prerequisite
Love the dawg in Thompson but he can’t shoot
Love the potential pnr play making of Cade but he can’t shoot
Love duren at the 5 but he can’t shoot
Bringing in joe Harris is more an indictment than an answer and for god sakes can we please find a home for Burks that comes with some meaningful play come June for us fans
I’m not even opening up the box they want to call the 4 today … but whatever is behind door 2 for the future … you guessed it folks should probably be able to shoot
Cade need a team mate who can score from 3s. Maybe zach lavine. Bulls need big. Pistons have some decent bigs. Add some 1st
Detroit could use veterans like muscala
How much tankingc can you do?
Why don’t they start trying to actually play the game of basketball, which main goal Is “to win the game, by scoring More points than the other team”?
How can you develop a winning core, if year after year, you teach them to lose on purpose?
Do you expect them to win afterwards?
In basketball, size, athleticism, length, skills, matter a Lot, obviously. But if you don’t develop heart, guts, accountability, discipline, effort, passion, you won’t win.
Stop looking for the next 7’0 point guard who can windmill, and start trying to win with what you have!!
You don’t live off analytics!!