After the Clippers lost their fifth straight game on Sunday, coach Tyronn Lue theorized that James Harden is being “too polite” as he tries to fit in with his teammates, writes Ohm Youngmisuk of ESPN. During Saturday’s practice, Lue told Harden that he has “free rein” to play his normal style, but that didn’t translate well in his first game in front of his new home fans. Harden was limited to 11 points, four rebounds and three assists while shooting 4-of-12 from the field and 1-of-7 from three-point range.
“I think he’s doing too much to try to fit in,” Lue said. “So that’s on me. Just yesterday we had a talk amongst the team and just he has to be James Harden. He led the league in assists the last two or three years, and making plays and what he does in the pick-and-roll, he’s great. So we have to allow him to be himself.”
Responding to Lue’s message, Harden said he understands there’s a need to become more aggressive and make “the right basketball plays.” His teammates know they need the best version of Harden in order to succeed, and they’re willing to adjust to what he can do.
“We want James to be himself,” Paul George said. “James is used to having the ball and orchestrating offense and breaking offense down every possession. I’m sure it is tough when it’s not that every possession, and so he’s working through that. We’re all working through something, and we’re just trying to figure out how to be ourselves when those opportunities present themselves.”
There’s more on the Clippers:
- Lue was more frustrated than he has been all season after L.A. lost at home to a Memphis team that entered the game with a 1-8 record, according to Law Murray of The Athletic. Murray notes that Lue built the team in training camp around Russell Westbrook‘s ability to push the ball and create open shots, but the offense had moved at a different pace since Harden was acquired. “I think playing too slow, just playing too slow,” Lue told reporters. “We get rebounds, you get stops, you got to push it. On makes, we got to push it, get up quick and attack early. You know, we can’t just f— … Sorry. No, I mean, we just can’t just walk around offensively. Like you got to get to the next actions.”
- Bringing Harden off the bench might be the best solution for both him and the team, contends Mirjam Swanson of The Orange County Register. She suggests that Lue has already realized this, as Harden and Westbrook only shared the court for 11 minutes Sunday even though they both started.
- Reserve guard Bones Hyland didn’t play in Sunday’s game, and Lue said he’s likely to remain out of the rotation for a while, tweets Clippers beat writer Joey Linn. Hyland has averaged 11.8 PPG in eight games and even made two starts, but Lue wants more size off the bench and plans to stick with the rotation he used against Memphis.
He is being his true self; not very good anymore.
Harden could easily fill a CP3-esque role with the 2nd unit for the Clippers, the only question is “will he be willing to do so?” And I for one doubt it. This is what he is at this point. A bitter guy past his best, who can only work for specific teams instead of being a plug-and-play weapon. He and Russ weren’t even a great fit in Houston, and both of them were much better individual players at that point. Russ just suits this current Clippers team better, and everyone knows it.
There is nothing funnier or more satisfying than seeing this jerk fail and yet again coaches are so scared of him they blame everyone else
This lineup would have been great in 2016.
Duh lol
Harden wanted out. He worked hard to get to the Clippers and now he is getting what he deserves. Go try to be a max guy this offseason and find someone new to blame.
By “getting what he deserves” you mean playing at his preferred destination while making 33 million a year?
Great for him probably not so great for my clippers! They will get better they will play better they will tease some Elite potential and they will fall well short of their first ever title!
A annual tradition that isn’t about to change
To give Clippers fans some hope. It isn’t just him, Kawahi don’t look his usual self and PG has been poor. They’re clearly getting to grips with playing “full time”, which they haven’t in a long time.
They will get better as they learn to play together and Harden gets “fit”(funny to say when defining Harden). I still fancy a fit clippers as a contender even with the current bad results. Buts it’s not all on one guy, it’s all of them, Russ too.
It’s also that none of them except PG are used to playing next to a highly heliocentric guard (Russ in OKC, as it happens). Russ and Harden both kind of split that between each other, which is what made Houston such a weird fit. Kawahi’s never played next to a guard that ball-dominant (Parker, Lowry, and Reggie Jackson/Pat Bev are all better off-ball guys), and Russ is used to dominating the ball himself. Harden likewise has next to no experience with that; both Maxey and Irving are better off-ball players than any of the main Clippers guys.
Harden doesn’t operate off-ball at all. Even as a shooter. Russ kind of does with his cutting and corner 3s, but even then, it’s not the best way to use him. I really don’t think they can coexist. 19-20 Houston was a long time ago when both were younger and healthier, and it wasn’t even a good fit in the first place.
Harden would be a good fit with leading the bench, but there’s probably not any chance he accepts that role. He wants too much money and glory.
@Eon. I kinda agree, I agree it’s a weird fit with both Russ and Harden that only worked in Hou because of Russ fitness and ability to attack the rim.
But to add the fact Russ is a historically bad 3pt shooter and is better at driving and heavy ball usage. I actually think Russ is better off leading the Bench. Harden is a better passer while PG is an excellent catch and shoot 3pt player. Plus while harden and PG stretch the floor Kawahi can work his mid range. And it’ll keep teams guessing as both Harden and George can go to the rim with ease & Kawahi is a good outside shooter. It’s a team of top 4x iso players and the coach needs to pull rank and sort the offence.
I don’t think it’s a terrible fit on paper, Kawahi, Harden and George should work if distributed right, and Russ is a better 6th and CP3 in GS. But Lue is trying too hard to keep everyone happy.
The problem is that the only player Harden works well with is Zubac. PG and Kawahi with Harden would just result in the AI/Melo-esque taking turns offense. Russ pushes the pace and his driving and cutting opens up the perimeter and draws defenders to him. Harden can’t do either because his legs are too damaged. He can shoot, but he’s not capable of the rule-bending stepback and foul drawing that he was at his peak. And his ability to take guys off the dribble or reposition is also much lesser.
That matters because offense and playmaking are inextricably intertwined. Harden being slower and more limited offensively means he has less options for how to make plays, whereas Russ can force defenses into motion. Harden worked with Embiid because his strength and shooting gravity mean that teams had to pay attention, and because the pick and roll forces everyone on both teams into motion. It worked with KD because his pullup is basically unguardable, forcing players to overcommit to work against him. Neither PG nor Kawhi can fill that role, as they’re more iso and screen-and-cut types. Still great players, no question, just a different fit and skillset. And Zubac is nowhere near the caliber of Embiid. It would be kind of like early-career Rondo, where leaving him open and stacking up on Garnett/Pierce/Allen was sometimes the better option because it forced Rondo to score himself. Harden is kind of in that same situation now, where his toolkit is sparse.
While I think Russ will be the one to go to the bench, I don’t think it’s the better option. It may simply be the only one because… Harden’s gonna Harden.
Great detail!! I love a debate backed up with logic and not “you’re wrong because I said”.
And yeah you’re right Harden isn’t what he was and the MVP level, constant unguardable and1 rim runs aren’t there anymore and the athleticism left him a long time ago now. Let alone the step back isn’t what it used to be. And his pass stats are bloated for Embiid easy finishes.
But that’s the issue, neither Russ or Harden work well with PG/Kawahi but it’s another jeresy name and poster for the new arena. To get the best out of Kawahi you have to get him in the mid range and as you said iso/cutter. Again, to get the best out of PG he needs the ball on the wing, either on spot up 3s or beating people on iso 1on1’s. If either are just cutting they might as well have good D role players than both of the best 2way wings in the league. It’s why all “big3’s have players that aren’t ball dominant. And why Brooklyn didn’t work out. (Or wouldn’t had they gotten more time together), and why I’m not sold on Suns.
The issue is in a standard mid court possession with Harden or Russ running the off, George will never be free for a catch and shoot and Kawahi will be instantly doubled so it will be an option of 3 or even 4 way iso until a double comes, or the D makes a mistake. There will be no easy buckets as there will be too much respect for easy cuts. It’s a set up I eat my words on from a while back and admit it just won’t work and to share as much as needed, all 4 are wasted for their talents. But they have to roll with it. Or rip it apart and try to get some seat filler exciting young guys for the new arena to excite fans and fill seats.
But I still think you can’t fully count a team out that has PG Kawahi Harden and Russ after a couple games, all deserve the benefit of the doubt for now. I still think they’ll contend, but 100% a bad fit by all means!!!
Truthfully, Beal plays way better off-ball than on, so if they can get him to buy into that, the Suns should be fine. KD and Booker have both spent time playing alongside ball-dominant guards and have always been great in 2-man games, so that doesn’t bother me. The Nets were a weird one, but health was a bigger obstacle to them than anything else.
I don’t buy Harden or Russ as an off-ball, that analysis is spot-on and I like the detail of diving into what each of Kawhi and PG needs. The issue is that Russ synergizes better with Kawhi and PG than Harden does. Either-or, or both at the same time, he’s better because the offense moves around with him on the floor, and that forces opponents to pick and choose which of Kawhi or PG they’ll load up on defensively, which opens up the middy for Kawhi and space for PG. Especially if you play another capable scorer like Powell alongside them. Harden, no chance of that. Opponents would put one guy on him and stack on Kawhi and PG instead.
Playing Russ or Harden alongside Norman Powell has to be the move, as they can’t play together at all. Powell is a mobile cutter and spacer who can also create his own shot when it’s needed, exactly what you’d want for the fourth option next to Kawhi, PG, and either Russ or Harden. But Russ’ greater mobility will allow him to create gaps in the defense whereas Harden might force slightly more closeouts, but not much. There’s more to playmaking than assists, and while Harden has the better A/T ratio, he’s not nearly as able with creating opportunities for teammates thanks to his reduced mobility. And Russ immediately creates transition offense just by existing, while Harden cannot create transition offense without an outlet pass.
I would much prefer Harden to come out with the second unit, grind out tough possessions with them and be more aggressive with less time to burn, as well as set up the Clippers wing shooters and cutters that the second unit has. I just don’t think he would go for it. Russ is decent in that role too, but Harden isn’t nearly as good with the starters. His pick-and-roll heavy style and slow pace just don’t elevate them enough, outside of Zubac.
With the suns, as I agree with you that Beal is a better off ball player, I just don’t think he’ll buy in to being 3rd and it’ll be another Ayton issue. But I’m more worried about the Booker KD aspect. Even with CP3 Book was the #1 scoring option, he’s out to prove he’s MVP candidate level, I just don’t think he’ll be the Wade type and let KD take lead in big games and I doubt KD will after the “bus driver drama”.
But with Russ Harden, I agree Russ is a better fit. But that won’t matter, they have given assets for Harden and the FO will force the hand. No way they have him coming off the bench, let alone him accepting that kinda role. And I agree Powell is a good 5 man. But think I also think Mann is a strong option. I think the better option is use Manns or Powells value to go for some roster filler in a trade, get some 3&d wings or a pass first guard willing to let the offence run outside them, like TJ MCconnell kind of player.
Again I agree Harden is best as one of 2 ball dominant players taking turns being useless when not handling the ball. While running off good PNR big men is his main outlet now you’re right Zubac is definitely not that. But I still won’t count them out just because who they are, and the role players they still have. (I’d still prefer seeing all 4 on other teams lighting up the league the way they know how).
he’s not gonna be making 33 million for much longer lmao and he left 100+ mill on the table by not resigning with the nets
He was getting the 33 million either way they was in his contract. What he did wanted was to go to the Clippers and get them to pay a lot over 3-5 years on a close to max contract. He is there and it doesn’t work because you have a bunch of ball dominant guys who don’t play off ball well.
While Harden is losing the Sixers look to be the happiest they been since before the Fultz draft and are winning without him. Harden is going to enter next offseason a year older, he’s requested a trade for the 3rd time in 4 years, and he isn’t looking good out there. He is officially in the old Carmelo Anthony point in his arc where his talent no longer makes up for his attitude and he’s going to realize no one wants to give him big money and big years.
Harden has zero fit on that team. Great job at destroying whatever chemistry they had left. Congrats Kawhi on getting less ball time so Kawhi can chuck up bricks!
In one comment he says he wants Harden to be himself which is half court slow motion isolation and in the next comment he says he wants to push the ball and have motion. I actually feel bad for Lue, he doesn’t deserve this. And the Clippers are going to have to go full rebuild this offseason.
Never understood the love for lue,he rode coattails to a ring as a player and coach. Exposed as both by Iverson and Harden.
People forget he comes from both the Doc Rivers coaching tree. From Boston to LA. Last I checked Rivers is back on TV where he’s actually good.
Clippers maybe needs to add more help.
Maybe wizards like danilo or muscala.
I haven’t watched any of these past Clips games, but when Harden was on the Nets, it always bugged me that Harden would bring the ball up the court by casually walking up the court as the shot clock drained, and then he’d stand there and look to pass it off or start dribbling moves to a step-back three or something. There’s no fluidity and energy to his play. I can’t see a winning team looking like that. Pace and transition play is super important.
Sixers robbed the Clips
I don’t think Lue knows what to do at this point. He wants Harden to play his natural game, which is a slow half court approach, but he also wants him to speed up and push the ball. Which is it?
The Clips got their new toy, but now they don’t know what to do with it. And that you isn’t as good as advertised.
Best guess is that he wants everyone else to speed up and move, but is willing to let Harden act as kind of the trailer. Wouldn’t be that weird; the Clips have run sets like that before with Zubac pushing ahead and one of their wings like Morris or Batum hanging back to act as a kickout threat.
I am thankful that to be blessed with so many elite level analysts on these boards that can tell so much about a team and a particular player’s fit within the team after only four games.
And its all the same people who were saying four weeks ago that “clippers offer is not enough for sixers harden is still good player” and now they are saying the opposite LOL