The Brandon Ingram situation will be a fascinating one to watch this season if he and the Pelicans don’t work out an extension before the regular season begins, writes Christian Clark of NOLA.com.
Clark believes New Orleans would have liked to move Ingram in a trade for a starting center this offseason, but couldn’t find a deal that made sense, with targets like Jarrett Allen and Nic Claxton signing long-term deals with their respective teams and Orlando deciding to hang onto Wendell Carter.
While Ingram is a virtual lock to start for the Pelicans as long as he’s on the roster, there will be several starting-caliber players vying for minutes in late-game situations, Clark notes. Dejounte Murray, Zion Williamson, CJ McCollum, Herbert Jones, and Trey Murphy will all be in that mix, and if New Orleans wants to use a traditional center in certain matchups, Daniel Theis figures to join them.
As Clark points out, Ingram was frustrated when he was benched during the fourth quarter this past spring in the Pelicans’ play-in loss to the Lakers, so it could be awkward if that situation repeats itself in the coming season, with the team asking the former All-Star to sacrifice while he’s playing for his next contract. Ingram could become a more indispensable part of the team’s closing lineups if he’s willing to be a floor spacer and shoot more three-pointers, Clark adds.
Here’s more from around the Southwest:
- Given the strength of the Western Conference and the fact that they only won 22 games last season, the Spurs may not be quite ready to enter the play-in mix in 2024/25, opines Kelly Iko of The Athletic. While Victor Wembanyama figures to take another step forward and the veteran additions of Chris Paul and Harrison Barnes will help, Iko stresses that San Antonio is committed to a patient roster-building approach and could still be the worst team in a strong Southwest Division next season.
- Iko ranks the Pelicans ahead of the Mavericks in his early projection of the division’s standings, but he believes Dallas had the slightly better offseason overall and lauds the team for improving its outside shooting by adding Klay Thompson and Quentin Grimes, among others. Iko’s mailbag also explores the Rockets‘ projected win total, Zach Edey‘s potential impact on the Grizzlies, and a few more topics from around the Southwest.
- Grant Afseth of NBAAnalysis.net takes an in-depth look at the Mavericks‘ offseason moves, exploring how Thompson will be deployed, who will replace Derrick Jones as the team’s go-to on-ball defender, and whether Spencer Dinwiddie is in position to replicate his past success in Dallas. Afseth also discusses the ongoing evolution of the Kyrie Irving/Luka Doncic backcourt duo and Dereck Lively‘s continued development.
Not a good look for the Pelicans because Brandon will need to have a great season to make the money next year. So expect him to be a ball hog on the court. That could hurt the Pelicans because they have good offensive players without him.
That would probably hurt Ingram more than it would hurt the Pelicans, teams already dont really want Ingram because of his playstyle. The Pelicans could always just bench him if he isnt helping them.
Brandon Ingram to Portland for Anfernee Simons & Robert Williams works in the trade machine but not sure which team would also be expecting some draft pick(s) compensation as well, probably both.
Timelord & Theis would be a decent center pairing (providing Williams stays somewhat healthy) and Simons could be a solid scorer off of the Pels bench. Ingram is 4 years younger than Jerami Grant and would free the Blazers to move Grant in a separate deal. I don’t see Portland doing this deal mainly because Ingram is looking for a 4yr/200+M extension which even most bottom feeding teams wouldn’t want to take on, Zach Lavine’s trade value is sort of proof of that.
Brandon Ingram could have an All-Star caliber season and help lead the Pelicans past the first round and he probably still doesn’t see anyone coming in with offers of 50+M per season. Hopefully for New Orleans sake they can remedy the situation before next offseason.
Simons is a better player for Portland than Brandon. Brandon can’t play defense. Pelican would need to give up 3 1st round picks to make it fair. That is one of the worse trades i seen here in a long time. I doubt Pelicans would want to give up that much for Simmons and Williams unless they feel it puts them as a championship team.
“That is one of the worse trades i seen here in a long time.”
So your answer to my “worse trade” idea is to follow it up with an even worse one? Anfernee Simons is not worth Brandon Ingram PLUS three first round picks, that is straight up delusion and that is saying something coming from you when your comment history here speaks for itself.
Homie, you’re just coming at me for the sake of coming at me Arc, c’mon man lol. You can either Mute me or I can do it but I’m all good with listening to you try to talk about basketball. You Are Not Worth My Time.
Nobody wants Brandon that’s why he is on Pelicans still. He is not worth a long year deal so why would a rebuilding team like Portland want a soon to be free agent? You also said Robert Williams in the deal who has value. Teams been offering good players for him. So give me a good reason why it’s a good trade for Portland? It’s great for Pelicans.
It’s not a good trade but you’re acting as if Simons is first team All-Defense. Ingram can play defense and does so quite well when locked in, it’s just that the Pelicans don’t need another score first guard nor do they need a score first starting center. Portland also doesn’t need another expensive veteran PF as they already have Grant.
Whether my trade proposal could be considered good or not is definitely subjective. I also did preface it with Portland trading Grant so basically the Blazers could then move off his money and put it into a player fours years younger in Ingram (who I think is the better all around player than Jerami Grant.) I also followed that up with I doubt that Portland would do that deal, I just thought it could be a decent outcome for both teams. The Pels mainly get another rotation center while the Blazers get to improve their overall talent while freeing up more minutes for Sharpe & Scoot.
As for Ingram’s defense, I just looked up some stats for Arc (yes, I did give him some of my time here.)
2023-24 Defensive Rating
Brandon Ingram 112.6
Anfernee Simons 120.4
2023-24 Defensive Win Shares
Brandon Ingram 0.104
Anfernee Simons 0.032
Why are we even talking about defense here again? Ingram is also the better all around offensive player which a talent starved team like Portland could definitely use.
Who is taking Grant that will give Portland some good young players in return? Grant is better than Ingram so why make an unnecessary trade? For same type of player?
Arc, it could be a potential good move because Portland would be getting younger. Jerami Grant is 30yrs old and due to make 29/32/34/36M over the next 4 seasons with that 36M a 2027-28 player option at age 33.
Portland’s current timeline is made up of Scoot/Clingan at 20yrs old, Sharpe at 21, Avdija at 23,Muuray at 24 and Ayton at 26. Getting younger at that Grant wing position with Ingram would then let them move him to fill a different need.
They maybe similar players size and stats-wise but they’re really not. Ingram is a currently a 1A in New Orleans and carries a heavier load for the Pels especially when Zion is injured/off-court which happens pretty frequently. Outside of maybe a season in Denver, Grant has been a leading scorer type on bad teams, not someone that you’d want as THE guy on your roster and definitely not on a roster where he’s 10 years older than the guy you’re hoping to develop into a star in Scoot. Not that I’m saying that Ingram will be THE guy either, my trade was a suggestion to help both teams to better even out their rosters.
Rob Williams if healthy is going to see minimal playing time in a center rotation with Ayton and Clingan,the 7th pick in the draft. Its not like any two of those three can fit on the court at the same time.
Williams would fit a clear need in New Orleans. Moving Simons will free up more minutes for Scoot & Sharpe. Portland is banking on hitting big with those two guards, they need as much time court time to develop as possible.
This deal will never happen for multiple reasons but mainly because Ingram wants more money than he is currently worth. That tends to happen in the NBA, just look at what GS is dealing with Jonathan Kuminga. If I had to guess neither of those two gets close to their asking price and both take lesser deals to stay where they are.
If Portland was to do a trade for Ingram it would be Grant they trade to Pelicans. That is the problem with a Ingram he is only good to a new team if they want to get rid of future payroll. There is no fit in Portland. Nobody is giving Ingram a long term max deal so he will test free agency. He will end settling for a much lower price. Teams has called on Portland about Williams so he is not a negative value dump.
The Blazers have plenty of talent for where they’re at in their rebuild. They have 3 guards with starter and perhaps star potential with Sharpe and Henderson. They have solid center depth with Ayton, Williams and possibly Clingan. At the wing Avdija is solid and Murray, Camara and Walker looked like good rotation players. If anything they should play one more season as is then consolidate
They do need to trade Grant. He’s a good player but expensive for a veteran presence and takes minutes away from the kids. I honestly don’t know why the Blazers don’t deploy Sharpe at SF, he’s 6’6″ and can jump through the roof. If they traded Grant they could then move Avdija to PF.
Chuck, Portland does have a nice little core of young talent and my proposal was just meant to kill two birds with once stone for two teams. In Portland it was all about getting younger and freeing up more minutes for that young talent to develop, that’s all.
I loved seeing them pick up Avdija this offseason.
That is why you would need to attach 1st round picks for Portland to take a player that they don’t need.
Defensive win shares and defensive rating are both no-context stats that are better used for team or counting stat performance. Just so you’re aware. Neither is a good defensive metric. You want opponent’s FG%, contests, turnovers forced, ect. Ingram is mid in all of those areas, but so is Simons. Neither of them is a good defender to any degree. Ingram is the most mid wing I can think of on defense, and that includes the dinosaur that is LeBron. He’s just not active or effective defensively. Simons is also a very mid defender, but he’s a PG. He’s not really expected to be good at defense. Ingram, as a wing, basically has to be.
The real issue is that Ingram is an expiring deal who is hunting for a max extension (which he’s really, *really* not worth), while Simons is under contract on a reasonable deal for another year, outperformed Ingram when healthy last season, and isn’t expected to be a max player going forward. It wouldn’t be a massive swing of assets, but NO would need to include something to sweeten the deal for Portland, especially if you’re including Rob Williams too.
I agree that Defensive Rating and D-Win Shares aren’t the end all be all on defensive performance, i just used them in a conversation where Defense was brought in for some unknown reason.
I like Simons and think he could be a decent 3rd guard for some teams but I’d prefer Ingram who plays a much harder role to fill, a big wing that can excel on both ends. If someone likes Simons over Ingram, that’s fine.
As for your last paragraph, I’ve already pointed out that Ingram isn’t going to get 50M a year from anyone, that is straight ludicrous. I also mentioned that there would need to be draft compensation as part of the deal too where both teams would likely think that they should be owed it if my proposal ever was on the table.
Outside of debating which of Ingram/Simons is the better player, you guys are giving me reasons why that deal wouldn’t work which I’ve already admitted in that OP.
Simons as a 3rd guard is a weird take. He’s too good for that. Primary PG or an undersized SG on a team with a tall Point is what he should be.
Ingram cannot excel on both ends IMO. On offense, absolutely, but his defense is not and has never been good, not just by the standards of wings, but in general. He’s not like, Damian Lillard or Jordan Poole bad on D, but he’s quite subpar. Caris LeVert is a 6th man 2-guard and is a better defensive 3 than Ingram. He’s just not present on defense. He can pull off a highlight block or steal, or make a good play as part of a broader defensive set, but over the course of the season and in the playoffs, he’s very lackluster and uncaring on D, with minimal versatility. He’s just not good in that regard, and he’s an outright target in isolation. Get him on an island, and most guards can turn him into a turnstile.
Agree with the second paragraph, that’s fair.
Eon, Take your argument against Ingram’s defense and apply it right back to Simons. At Simons size he’s clearly going to be that same target in isolation as you think Ingram will be. I view him as a 3rd guard because I tend to be picky when it comes to valuing a player especially if talking about building a roster. Jrue & D White have spoiled me there lol, I’d prefer good two way players for my starting backcourt.
Many of your other points on Ingram I tend to agree with but I honestly think that you’re overstating them here, he’s not some schlub on either end. He’s a very good playmaker on offense that can facilitate with his passing (led NO in APG) or get you a bucket, especially with his midrange game. On the other end he has the ability to play high level defense due to his length but I totally agree that his effort level can be a concern at times where it can look outright average compared to high level.
I’m not trying make the argument that Brandon Ingram is this great player, I tried making that clear right from the start, I just offered a potential solution for these two teams. This Ingram compared to Simons debate regarding defense started elsewhere, you replied to my response to that.
I disagree as far as Ingram’s defense goes, he does seem disinterested at times much like LeBron but also like LeBron he’s is very effective when locked in and engaged. When he is engaged he can also guard 1-4 and be effective guarding the 5 for short periods. With the playmaking duties shifting to Murray and Williamson I’m interested to see if Ingram is more consistent on that end. He may also be more willing to take threes as Murray is a savant at the midrange. If the Pelicans can trade him though they should as I feel that Murphy and Jones are better options at his spot in the lineup going forward and the Pelicans really need a proven big man.
Chuck, we can agree to disagree on his defense. I’ve watched alot of Pelicans game over recent years just because I’ve been a Zion fan since college. I’ve seen him play enough defense to offer the opinion that he’s not as bad on that end as some are making him out to be. Does he have an effort issue at times? Absolutely.
If we were going down that rabbit hole of why New Orleans is hesitant to extend him at a higher number, its probably because of that effort level. If you’ve seen him enough in interviews, especially his TNT one with Barkley after winning MIP a few years back, its not far fetched to take a guess at why his effort tends to wane at times. That could be a possible reason for the delay in any extension coming his way or with some team trading for him, if he’s even available.
“If the Pelicans can trade him though they should as I feel that Murphy and Jones are better options at his spot in the lineup going forward and the Pelicans really need a proven big man.”
Definitely. Its tough to guess where the NO’s front office might be at as far as wanting to retain him or not. Would they be happy extending him at his current salary of 36M? Slightly more? Less? Much less? Who knows but if he is available for trade then the Pels should be definitely looking for that proven big man like you mention especially if they can find one currently on a multi-year deal. Easier said than done though.
Ingram to jazz or raps.
Ingram for Allen is intriguing. It’s just Ingram has not shown me he’s a max player. And he wants that money. Maybe playing next to Mitchell. Wakes his butt up.
I like Edey . He’s going to make an impact.
Ingram is an uber talent, easily a top 25 offensive talent in the league. He’ll have a very discounted trade value right now because his injury history and contract situation. Still, pursuit of him while high risk, could also be high reward. It would have to be the right situation on the acquring end (not a contender), because its a roll of the dice. But Ingram, at 26 or so, is only some good health and better discipline away from being an All-Star for any or all of the next 4 years. In the NBA right now, how many of trade candidates fit that description?
I think @ETR’s idea of POR is a good one. At least in terms of taking on Ingram as is (including the risk of walking at the end of the season). I doubt NOP wants any part of Simons, regardless, but if for some reason they were willing to take both Simons and Williams, then POR should jump on it (and I’m fairly sure they would). I know Simons is a 2k favorite, but, on an NBA court, he’s just another undersized 2G with a decent (short of PG level) handle, and some secondary ability to create a shot. Williams’ own heath history makes him a perfect inclusion in an Ingram deal.